(edit title) re: culturally cleansed Sweden Options

[Lelebeauxart]

I don't know why that thread was locked, so I'm leaving my thoughts in a new thread.

"Old Sweden" is definitely worth preserving. Unfortunately, I'm the rare individual who thinks so. Therefore, in less than 10 years I believe Sweden will be almost unrecognizable and well on it's way to being the new shithole of the world ... or at least one of them.

Swedes, by nature, are not patriotic, don't care where they come from and have absolutely no pride in their culture or country. Its sympathizing government is destroying Sweden.

[Bundy Rum]

I'm not sure why it is locked either, we must be upsetting our cultural 'masters'.

Anyway, thanks for a sensible response; I almost lost faith after battling the indomitable 'BethD' & 'Melanie'.

The question is essentially one of demographics. You have a a policy of multi-culturalism that has created a massive non-assimilated population since the the 1980's. The policy in fact encourages to a greater extent non-assimilation.

Traditional Swedish culture is constantly challenged, by the almost universally unchallenged left-socialist SD.

Is there a tipping point at which old Sweden faces a serious internal threat to its own identity.

For example, foreigners may make up 10% of the population. They however, will make a far more significant population of young people (France is 10% Muslim, but 25%-30% of all children starting school are Muslim). Given immigrant women are far more likely to have significantly higher birth rate and almost all deaths represent old age Swedes, with continued massive immigration; the trend becomes almost exponential.

Given the events in France and the utter failure that is Malmo, I would have thought these trends are of serious national importance.

Should serious questions be asked? For how long this trend continue, until this may cause serious disturbance or are we happy sailing?

The average Swede simply does not appreciate the powerful demographic trends that underly their country and the consequences it may produce. They are la-la land so to speak.

[Lelebeauxart]

Unfortunately, the general natural Swede population is too dumb and/or apathetic to see what is happening to them. The unfortunate outcome will be ruin and the near complete break down of a once great society. I believe they know what's coming, but don't have the berries to stand up and say, "Hey, this isn't right. Let?s stop this madness." It's amazing to me that modern day Swedes who seemingly have no backbone were once pillaging Vikings.

[*Guest*]

Sweden does have a backbone. It's what makes them stand up and say "we're a prosperous, happy country - we'll take as many of the world's persecuted and dispossessed people as we can" when neighbours such as Denmark and Finland more or less close their borders to immigrants.

You talk about Swedes as if they are dumb. Swedes are many things but they are not stupid people and they love their country. But they have decided to help war refugees - the fact that they haven't got the integration policies right doesn't mean they are wrong to hold those values.

The "loss of your own country's identity" drum is routinely banged as a non-racist way to express doubts about immigration. But it reveals a very short term view of human and social development. Populations have been shifting and blending for thousands of years - it's nothing new. And the last hundred or so years has probably seen more than ever - this is something that creates culture, not something that destroys it.

[Lelebeauxart]

Bullshit.

[Bundy Rum]

Unfortunately, the general natural Swede population is too dumb and/or apathetic to see what is happening to them. The unfortunate outcome will be ruin and the near complete break down of a once great society. I believe they know what's coming, but don't have the berries to stand up and say, "Hey, this isn't right. Let?s stop this madness." It's amazing to me that modern day Swedes who seemingly have no backbone were once pillaging Vikings.

I think this will be the BIG issue for not only Sweden, but all of Western Europe over the next 25 years. It is amazing that at even the slightest mention of this issue of this involves censorship 'locked down'.

I understand that Sweden has some of the most draconian 'hate speech' laws in the world and they are selectively enforced by the ruling party.

I was in Boras 4 years ago visiting a friend 'a Swedish girl' and she had returned after many years in London, we needed milk. She said that she would go and get it to her mother. They had an argument in Swedish. Her mother grabbed me by the arm and made me promise her she would not go unescorted. I will never forget the look in her eyes. This was not the look of a mindless bigot, but a woman who was genuinely fearful for her daughter.

When I went with her, I understood why. We had to go through some high rise council tenacies. The immigrants were not only not integrated, but positively, from what I could tell, hated ?Swedes? or at least thought it was open season on them. This was Boras for god's sake.

That was four years ago.

[Bundy Rum]

Sweden does have a backbone. It's what makes them stand up and say "we're a prosperous, happy country - we'll take as many of the world's persecuted and dispossessed people as we can" when neighbours such as Denmark and Finland more or less close their borders to immigrants.

You talk about Swedes as if they are dumb. Swedes are many things but they are not stupid people and they love their country. But they have decided to help war refugees - the fact that they haven't got the integration policies right doesn't mean they are wrong to hold those values.

The "loss of your own country's identity" drum is routinely banged as a non-racist way to express doubts about immigration. But it reveals a very short term view of human and social development. Populations have been shifting and blending for thousands of years - it's nothing new. And the last hundred or so years has probably seen more than ever - this is something that creates culture, not something that destroys it.

Tell that to some Australian Aboriginals, Maori New Zealanders, Native Americans. Populations shift, bla, bla you have nothing to fear.

I was wondering who was going to be the first to pull the BIG 'R' word. Kudos to you Tom.

[Lelebeauxart]

If you think they were bad four years ago, you should see them now. There was a group, in class today, talking very heatedly about the fact that they couldn't get a handout from the government until they'd been living here for two years. One was obviously from Iran (or similarly predominate Muslim country) and the other two were from "The Congo". And they were so pissed off that they weren't getting money for SFI. I'm sorry, but immigrants, in general, have no respect for natural Swedes and it saddens me that they (Swedes) have no idea what fools they're being made of.

It has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. It has everything to do with disrespect and zero gratitude. I see it every day. The Swedish society is being used, abused, and made a mockery of.

[Lelebeauxart]

Tell that to some Australian Aboriginals, Maori New Zealanders, Native Americans. Populations shift, bla, bla you have nothing to fear.

I was wondering who was going to be the first to pull the BIG 'R' word. Kudos to you Tom.

Ah, PRECIS!

[Polly]

Mourning the loss of your national identity is not in the slightest way racist. Of course the PC brigade play right into the hands of those who want all European countries to become just another state in the United States of Europe.

[Roy E]

Tom's post just underscores your point - He's either oblivious or in denial as to what Euroipe is up against. Denmark has recently awakened to the problem. But when teenage girls are designing 'Rape belts' , well that's an indication that something has gone horribly wrong in society. Teen age girls would not be preooccupied with such thoughts in a healthy society.

Mark Steyn (Canadian) sums it up rather well in his opinion column:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...1/15/do1502.xml


I fear there are very dark days ahead for Europe. Don't Beleive me? Well do the math:

Europe's 'baby bust' signals major change
THE WASHINGTON TIMES | November 24, 2005 | David R. Sands

[Wastegate]

I for one completely agree with Tom,

I am Irish ,,,racially, what is that? The Celts, Normans, Vikings and of course the British ...all shaped what is the modern Irish culture (sometimes through unwelcome invasions, sometimes through harmious settlement). No regrets I say...I can't even trace my genetics to whether I am a descendent of a victim an or aggressor. Now it is Eastern Europeans among others who will add to the flavour of Irish culture. Migration is a completely natural way for cultures to evolve. The trick is to do it harmoniously.

Western culture already has had huge effect on national cultures in western countries ...music, food, films, etc nowadays share a common western culture. With global mobility we are on the verge of a globalised culture. Maybe we could call it Humanity...somethig I believe the Swedes have a lot to contribute to. The Swede's engage well with changing culture ...they accept the need to learn English and are not afraid to bring Engish phrases into their language ...they are well informed of global issues and act appropriately.

All that said, I don't think gagging public speach on immigration is helpful. In order to encourage a "harmonious" evolution of culture, there is a necessity for immigrant's behaviour to be compatable with existing Swedish culture and laws controlling the volume and integration of immigrants need to be enforced.

Quite simply, I don't believe Swedish culture is under threat any more than that of any other modern and open national culture. I don't know if some of you guys are Brits but take Britain now verses Britain in the 1950's ...a vastly different culture that has morphed much more than Sweden has or is ever likely to in the next half century ...but it's still British, right? we just adjust our perceptions of British culture.

[Lelebeauxart]

I for one completely agree with Tom,

I am Irish ,,,racially, what is that? The Celts, Normans, Vikings and of course the British ...all shaped what is the modern Irish culture (sometimes through unwelcome invasions, sometimes through harmious settlement). No regrets I say...I can't even trace my genetics to whether I am a descendent of a victim an or aggressor. Now it is Eastern Europeans among others who will add to the flavour of Irish culture. Migration is a completely natural way for cultures to evolve. The trick is to do it harmoniously.

I don't see many people tripping over themselves to live in Ireland.

[*Guest*]

I don't see many people tripping over themselves to live in Ireland.

Immigration to Ireland is higher than it's ever been in the country's history. And emigration is lower than it's been in generations.

[Gower76]

agree with every word you say, johnfitzg - thanks for saving me the effort of typing it myself. and for expressing it better than I would have done, no doubt. :wink: