Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
The Local _ Life in Sweden _ Ex-wife wants to move back to Sweden with the kids
Posted by: SteffromBristol 18.Nov.2020, 02:32 PM
Hi all,
I am new to this forum which I found whilst I was doing some online research on my situation. I signed up to start this thread, as I thought some kind forum members could give me advice.
I am a dual citizen (UK/ German) currently living in Switzerland. I separated from my Swedish wife of 10 years around a year ago, and we are due to start divorce proceedings soon. We will be divorcing in Sweden as it is really expensive in Switzerland. We have three kids (3, 6, and 10) who have all been born and raised in Switzerland. We share the custody of the kids 50/50. As a family, we have never lived in Sweden, although we have spent holidays and summers there over the years. The kids are Swedish nationals and speak Swedish with their mother, although their schooling has been in German.
I have lost my job as a result of the Covid pandemic, and I am in the process of job hunting, although the job market is not too promising at the moment. I have been unemployed for 6 months now, but thankfully the unemployment insurance system here is amazing so I will get paid a decent monthly "salary" until the end of 2021. My ex-wife has a fantastic job here and she makes multiples of what I used to earn before losing my job.
Recently, my ex-wife told me she is thinking to move to Sweden with the kids. She has been wanting to move back home for years now, but I have always been adamant that I don't want to move to Sweden. She says that the kids will have access to better and cheaper education in Sweden, and that given that I am now unemployed in Switzerland, it makes more sense for everyone to leave this country at this stage.
I am freaking out. I love my kids and I don't want to leave them. I don't even know where else I could go, as I don't have any family left or any real ties to my home countries. I am considering whether moving to Sweden with them could make sense, but I am concerned as 1) I don't speak the language, 2) my employment opportunities would be pretty bad, 3) I am not a fan of the Swedish mindset/ lagom/ jantelagen and all that jazz.
I have booked an appointment with a layer of course, but I wanted to hear the opinions of other expats who live in Sweden. Do you think it would be a mad idea for me to move to Sweden with my ex and my kids? Do you think I have any legal grounds to fight her decision?
Thank you for any advice.
Posted by: Martin565 18.Nov.2020, 03:10 PM
Posted by: Railman 18.Nov.2020, 03:15 PM
I would be very cautious about moving to a country you don't seem very keen on. Living in an alien country is full of challenges as it is. It is all fine and dandy to talk about the kids, but you need to be happy as well. That matters a lot for the kids' upbringing too.
Either you should to want to live in Sweden, or your existing circumstances should be so horrible that living in Sweden will be better no matter what.
You can get by in Sweden without speaking Swedish but it very much depends on what you plan to do and what you want. It very much depends on your likely social environment and your job plans. There are areas of expertise that require no Swedish, a few which require native English expertise (by which I mean you have to be a professional wordsmith, or possibly a trained teacher, not just be able to speak it). Other more 'regular' jobs do need it, but getting up to workable Swedish doesn't put you in a favourable position versus all the other native Swedish speakers applying.
Social life is a bit more complicated as it is such an individual thing. It depends so much on what kind of people you want to meet, what kind of people you are likely to meet, and what your interests are.
On top of that is weather (dark and cold for 5+ months) and location (unlike Switzerland, not a stone's throw from lots of great countries to visit).
Posted by: SteffromBristol 18.Nov.2020, 03:42 PM
Thank you both for your replies. I want to add that the post-separation relationship with my ex-wife has been amicable so far. However, it has largely been amicable because I have "danced to her tune", much like I have done during our 12 years long relationship.
I don't know how she would react if I opposed to her moving to Sweden with the kids, and if things between us would remain amicable in that scenario.
Posted by: Grommet 18.Nov.2020, 03:55 PM
I would try to keep things in Switzerland if you can. Better opportunities, standard of living, world-class scenery, proximity to the EU etc.
Once she gets to Sweden, you become, legally, tossed to the side. Any problems, and courts will side with the mother, in Sweden. You instantly become a 2nd class citizen, and as a foreigner, you will lose any power you have.
She will use the Swedish system against you, and you don't stand a chance.
Don't believe the "hype" about Sweden. It is quite a nasty place for foreigners. Quite expensive as well.
Posted by: Martin565 18.Nov.2020, 04:22 PM
Posted by: Guest 18.Nov.2020, 04:27 PM
Before you make any moves make sure than as the kids are Swedish you are registered as both a parent and guardian of the kids with the Swedish authorities. That way you will always be involved in their educational decision etc..
Next I'd base your decision on the likelihood of you finding a job and that really depends on your sector. With covid there are tougher times ahead employment wise to come.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 18.Nov.2020, 08:43 PM
Posted by: Martin565 18.Nov.2020, 09:08 PM
Posted by: comhemigen 19.Nov.2020, 10:05 AM
I think it would be a bad idea to do this. I was in a similar position to you a few years ago (ex-wife wanting to move to Sweden) and I went with it.
Unfortunately, after 6 months of job-hunting I hadn't found one, but she refused to return home. Now I have to travel to Sweden every month just to see my children. I consider my decision to move to Sweden one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I don't agree that the education here is good: bullying is rife across all types of school and there is a general lack of discipline in schools in Sweden.
I also don't agree that your children will have a better life: from what I know of Switzerland, it is extremely safe, so much so that 5-year-olds can walk to nursery on their own. Violent crime gets worse in Sweden every year, and I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable letting young children out on their own in any of the major cities here.
The job market is very hard here if you don't speak Swedish, and the corona situation has made it even more difficult.
So, yes, I think you would be mad to leave Switzerland, where you have unemployment benefit, speak the local language, and have 50/50 custody, to move to Sweden.
Posted by: Grommet 19.Nov.2020, 06:34 PM
OP, you could approach with "now isn't the time to be moving" and try to get her to agree that it doesn't happen before you get a decent job there.
Saying you may as well move to Sweden because you are unemployed there makes no sense. Seems like most of the reasoning being given to you, why you need to go to Sweden, is just wishful thinking.
No way Sweden has anything over Switzerland. End of story.
Even with a job, living in Sweden will be a severe downgrade. It will certainly shock you if you ever have to suffer experiencing life in Sweden on a continual basis.
Entitled, spoilt, self-righteous people, the Swedes.
Posted by: Martin565 19.Nov.2020, 06:51 PM
Posted by: Martin565 19.Nov.2020, 07:03 PM
Saying you may as well move to Sweden because you are unemployed there makes no sense. Seems like most of the reasoning being given to you, why you need to go to Sweden, is just wishful thinking.
No way Sweden has anything over Switzerland. End of story.
Even with a job, living in Sweden will be a severe downgrade. It will certainly shock you if you ever have to suffer experiencing life in Sweden on a continual basis.
Entitled, spoilt, self-righteous people, the Swedes.
Stop the ride now I wanna get off https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08wwmfc/the-scandinavian-way-to-tackle-winter
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 19.Nov.2020, 09:09 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 19.Nov.2020, 09:10 PM
Saying you may as well move to Sweden because you are unemployed there makes no sense. Seems like most of the reasoning being given to you, why you need to go to Sweden, is just wishful thinking.
No way Sweden has anything over Switzerland. End of story.
Even with a job, living in Sweden will be a severe downgrade. It will certainly shock you if you ever have to suffer experiencing life in Sweden on a continual basis.
Entitled, spoilt, self-righteous people, the Swedes.
As are people in just about every other Western country under the age of 35. You are so blinded in our anti-Swede bias.
Posted by: Martin565 19.Nov.2020, 09:23 PM
Posted by: Grommet 20.Nov.2020, 03:44 AM
Posted by: SteffromBristol 20.Nov.2020, 10:48 AM
Hi all, thank you again for your comments and advice. I have a meeting booked with a lawyer for next week, to figure out exactly where I stand legally and my rights. I would prefer to solve this "situation" amicably without going down the lawyer route, as the relationship with my ex-wife has been friendly since the separation and that has benefitted the kids immensely.
She has been obsessed with the idea of moving back to Sweden for the last 5/6 years. I don't get it, she has a great job here, she makes a lot of money, we live 5 minutes from each other so the kids can freely go from my place to hers, we have a great arrangement, the kids are happy and settled. Her family (parents, brother, and nieces) live in Sweden, but she and the kids already spend 2 months every year there between the various holidays. She has a summer house there, so it is not like she doesn't have a "base" in Sweden already. In Sweden she would be paid a lot less than here, she'd have to deal with the horrendous weather, she'd have sole custody of the kids with no respite, and the kids would be separated from their father. What's so appealing about that arrangement?!
I don't get it.
Posted by: ChocOwl 20.Nov.2020, 01:53 PM
Nope
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 20.Nov.2020, 02:12 PM
She has been obsessed with the idea of moving back to Sweden for the last 5/6 years. I don't get it, she has a great job here, she makes a lot of money, we live 5 minutes from each other so the kids can freely go from my place to hers, we have a great arrangement, the kids are happy and settled. Her family (parents, brother, and nieces) live in Sweden, but she and the kids already spend 2 months every year there between the various holidays. She has a summer house there, so it is not like she doesn't have a "base" in Sweden already. In Sweden she would be paid a lot less than here, she'd have to deal with the horrendous weather, she'd have sole custody of the kids with no respite, and the kids would be separated from their father. What's so appealing about that arrangement?!
I don't get it.
Definitely a sad situation.and hard to make a comment on...
Your last words do not address the fact that the woman wants to go "home"...what some think of as uncomfortable is accepted as part of normal life for others...
It would seem the woman has been unhappy for years as indicated...
Good luck to both of you...
Posted by: SteffromBristol 20.Nov.2020, 02:22 PM
Your last words do not address the fact that the woman wants to go "home"...what some think of as uncomfortable is accepted as part of normal life for others...
It would seem the woman has been unhappy for years as indicated...
Good luck to both of you...
I get that she is unhappy, that she misses home, and she wishes that she was closer to her family. But is that enough of a reason to uproot your currently happy children and condemn them to a life where they see their father once a month for a couple of days?
Posted by: Martin565 20.Nov.2020, 02:30 PM
Posted by: Grommet 20.Nov.2020, 05:21 PM
What do your kids want? If they don't want to go, that should be made clear to their mother.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 20.Nov.2020, 08:11 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 20.Nov.2020, 08:12 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 20.Nov.2020, 08:13 PM
They are kids. They do what they are told!
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 20.Nov.2020, 08:17 PM
I think you already know the answer to that...
Posted by: Martin565 20.Nov.2020, 08:20 PM
Only thing fake about me are the right jabs I feint before I throw in the big fast left hook.
Posted by: Guest 21.Nov.2020, 07:34 AM
OP,
Have you considered that with covid she thinks that having a good job and lots of money isn't necessarily happiness? Perhaps she is placing more value on everything else now? Old friends and family included.
It's also possible that she's looking forwards and whilst she might want the kids father involved with the kids, she doesn't want her life plan to revolve around the Ex's location and not having a job there means you have less ties to Switzerland anyway. Whilst you might be amicable, you are still separated and divorcing.
Posted by: SteffromBristol 21.Nov.2020, 10:11 AM
Have you considered that with covid she thinks that having a good job and lots of money isn't necessarily happiness? Perhaps she is placing more value on everything else now? Old friends and family included.
It's also possible that she's looking forwards and whilst she might want the kids father involved with the kids, she doesn't want her life plan to revolve around the Ex's location and not having a job there means you have less ties to Switzerland anyway. Whilst you might be amicable, you are still separated and divorcing.
I get that, but when you have kids you don't get to make unilateral decisions that profoundly affect the lives of three people just because you want to plan your life the way you want. When you have kids you accept that your life will be tethered to your co-parent's life until the kids have grown up, and you accept to put your kids' best interest above your own. Or so I thought.
Posted by: Guest 21.Nov.2020, 10:29 AM
Family life doesn't just have to mean the father. In 12 months time you'll be jobless and no income or benefits, then what.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 21.Nov.2020, 09:10 PM
Is everything about you an utter joke? I bet you couldn't beat you way out of a paper bag.
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 12:29 AM
[quote name='TheExpatEagle' date='21.Nov.2020, 09:10 PM' post='956629']
Bet, you say?
Posted by: Grommet 22.Nov.2020, 04:50 AM
There goes Wallander again. Hmm, you really couldn't fathom the guy might have a new job by then?
And so in your intellectually vacant world, Sweden is his saviour? His only answer? F'sakes. You could comedy SkoBo, if you weren't such a sad type clown.
OP, Sweden is going down the tubes. Economy, health-care, education, immigration, you name it. Your ex surely knows you will be in trouble if you go to Sweden.
If there is any way to keep your kids where they are, I would sincerely look into that option. Your kids will also undergo the Swedish brainwashing in school, where they will learn to become helpless, to stop thinking for themselves, and to have nanny-state look out for their interests, because they will never learn to do it for themselves. Pride, self-worth and critical thinking are all taboo in Sweden.
OP, go find the documentary "The Swedish Theory of Love" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UfkSthddCE Do you really want your kids living in that shit?
Swedes are only socialised to function in the dysfunctional Swedish society. They struggle out in the real world, when they have only themselves to rely upon. Outside of Sweden, Swedes have zero confidence. And inside Sweden, they don't need it.
Posted by: Guest 22.Nov.2020, 07:58 AM
And so in your intellectually vacant world, Sweden is his saviour? His only answer? F'sakes. You could comedy SkoBo, if you weren't such a sad type clown.
OP, Sweden is going down the tubes. Economy, health-care, education, immigration, you name it. Your ex surely knows you will be in trouble if you go to Sweden.
If there is any way to keep your kids where they are, I would sincerely look into that option. Your kids will also undergo the Swedish brainwashing in school, where they will learn to become helpless, to stop thinking for themselves, and to have nanny-state look out for their interests, because they will never learn to do it for themselves. Pride, self-worth and critical thinking are all taboo in Sweden.
OP, go find the documentary "The Swedish Theory of Love" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UfkSthddCE Do you really want your kids living in that shit?
Swedes are only socialised to function in the dysfunctional Swedish society. They struggle out in the real world, when they have only themselves to rely upon. Outside of Sweden, Swedes have zero confidence. And inside Sweden, they don't need it.
She won't be moving there because she thinks it's better for him or his future. He's no longer relevant. They've split. She's doing it for her own reasons.
Posted by: Grommet 22.Nov.2020, 09:22 AM
He's her children's father. And you are an asshole for suggesting he is irrelevant.
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 09:26 AM
To him everything about this place and all swedes are infallible,
Posted by: Guest 22.Nov.2020, 09:46 AM
She can't be expected to stay in Switzerland just because of him. It's not like they even have a job there now. And she has base her decision on her needs and the kids. What happens if he doesn't get a job there any way and moves to a completely different country.
Posted by: Guest 22.Nov.2020, 09:47 AM
Says the one forcing his wife to leave sweden and move to Birmingham with their kids.
Posted by: Grommet 22.Nov.2020, 09:58 AM
What happens if a tree falls on you in the forest?
And again, Wallander, you argument equally applies to him. He can't be expected to go to Meatball Land, by your own reasoning.
And then you make it sound like the guy will never get a job again.
Good god man, you're so small town. So narrow minded. And just ever so completely full of shit.
Posted by: Guest 22.Nov.2020, 10:04 AM
And again, Wallander, you argument equally applies to him. He can't be expected to go to Meatball Land, by your own reasoning.
And then you make it sound like the guy will never get a job again.
Good god man, you're so small town. So narrow minded. And just ever so completely full of shit.
They've split, what he does and where he works is his choice.
It's not like he's native Swiss, why can't she move home? It's her choice.
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 10:09 AM
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 10:23 AM
Posted by: SteffromBristol 22.Nov.2020, 04:02 PM
It's not like he's native Swiss, why can't she move home? It's her choice.
Perfect, according to this logic I could announce to her tomorrow that I am moving to the UK or Germany with the kids (I grew up in both places) because I want to "go home" and she should be fine with that, right?
After all, it is "my choice" to go home and we have joint 50/50 custody, so why would her desire to go home trump mine? She could move with us after all!
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 04:36 PM
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 22.Nov.2020, 04:43 PM
Beginning to doubt the OP...But hey!!!...He's done something right we are insulting each other...again!!! 
Posted by: Grommet 22.Nov.2020, 05:10 PM
Posted by: Guest 22.Nov.2020, 05:47 PM
After all, it is "my choice" to go home and we have joint 50/50 custody, so why would her desire to go home trump mine? She could move with us after all!
Neither of you are Swiss? Before you had kids you must have had some conversations on plans and aspirations? It can't be a complete shock if she has family there and a second house?
Posted by: Grommet 22.Nov.2020, 07:26 PM
Ah, Wallander just can't give it up. Did he say he was shocked, you retard?
SkoBo, if you wander out into the forest, and wait long enough, a tree will fall on you, and end your misery. Just sayin...
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 22.Nov.2020, 07:31 PM
What? You want to chicken out of another bet? You yellow belly Brummie bastard.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 22.Nov.2020, 07:34 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 22.Nov.2020, 07:37 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 22.Nov.2020, 07:38 PM
After all, it is "my choice" to go home and we have joint 50/50 custody, so why would her desire to go home trump mine? She could move with us after all!
Usually maternal rights trump paternal rights.
Posted by: Martin565 22.Nov.2020, 07:38 PM
Posted by: ChocOwl 23.Nov.2020, 10:44 AM
Not in Sweden. But it is Switzerland that is relevant here.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 23.Nov.2020, 01:47 PM
Posted by: Martin565 23.Nov.2020, 01:52 PM
Posted by: Martin565 23.Nov.2020, 02:28 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 23.Nov.2020, 08:05 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 23.Nov.2020, 08:06 PM
Posted by: Martin565 23.Nov.2020, 10:17 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 24.Nov.2020, 08:17 PM
Posted by: Cheeseroller 26.Nov.2020, 08:53 PM
What if you do move to Sweden and in a year or so, she moves to the other end of Sweden? Or wants to move to another country for her career?
Unfortunately, she holds all of the cards. She has a high income and can defend herself in court, whereas you may not be able to. Also you want to avoid bitterness such that she makes access difficult and poisons the kids minds.
I left my marriage when the kids were young and after a few years moved to Sweden. The ex had moved a 4 hour drive away so weekends with the kids at my home meant a crazy long round trip. I called them every weekend and they visited every school holiday. I was able to do things with them that they didn't do with Mum and that created super memories for us all.
You won't lose your kids because of distance, only indifference. I know it is rough, but that is the cost of a failed marriage and adults putting their needs and wishes above kids.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 27.Nov.2020, 07:59 PM
Unfortunately, she holds all of the cards. She has a high income and can defend herself in court, whereas you may not be able to. Also you want to avoid bitterness such that she makes access difficult and poisons the kids minds.
I left my marriage when the kids were young and after a few years moved to Sweden. The ex had moved a 4 hour drive away so weekends with the kids at my home meant a crazy long round trip. I called them every weekend and they visited every school holiday. I was able to do things with them that they didn't do with Mum and that created super memories for us all.
You won't lose your kids because of distance, only indifference. I know it is rough, but that is the cost of a failed marriage and adults putting their needs and wishes above kids.
I wonder if this kind of thing is more prevelant these days because it's more common for people from different countries to get together?
Even before the internet, UK marriages were failing at a faster rate for various reasons so if you throw in different cultures I wonder if after the initial honeymoon period there is more stress in a marriage between people from different countries than people from the same one?
When I moved to Sweden it had the reputation of being the divorce capital of Europe not to mention suicide.
Are the odds evened out if the couple live in a 3rd country or if it just magnifies the problem?
Posted by: Maya707 29.Nov.2020, 02:49 PM
Posted by: Martin565 29.Nov.2020, 03:15 PM
Posted by: Grommet 29.Nov.2020, 05:29 PM
Posted by: Martin565 29.Nov.2020, 05:57 PM
Posted by: PSR730 29.Nov.2020, 06:36 PM
Hi,
I lived in Switzerland for 12 years and moved to Sweden in 2018. Sweden is not an easy country as it is the case of Switzerland when it comes to social life. There are two major things that I would say that are better in Sweden, 1) kindergarden is very cheap (you pay it with taxes) and 2) more progressive (from an institutional perspective i.e., the government agencies) but dont expect to find progressive people all around and think that is a vibrant place because it is NOT, people are as shy as Swiss and even more individualistic.
Otherwise Switzerland beats Sweden for K.O, as simple as that. I would recommend you either to try to stay in Switzerland as much as you can, in general it is difficult to get better anywhere else in the world...or at least wait until you find a job in Sweden, remember that if you move to Sweden you lose your unemplyment insurance (Arbeitslosigkeit) rights. I think that can be a good argument you could use with your ex, so you can keep providing for your kids.
Dont move to Sweden without a job, use all your means to stay if possible, take a look to the documentary called Swedish theory of love.
I just opened this account to tell you this...Good luck!
Posted by: SteffromBristol 30.Nov.2020, 09:44 AM
Hi all,
Thank you a lot for your messages and advice, I took all of them very seriously and read them carefully.
The general consensus seems to be that my best option is to stay in Switzerland for as long as possible and to try and keep my children here as well.
I had a 30 mins conversation with a lawyer last week, who essentially confirmed that my ex-wife needs to have my consent to move the children to another country, and if we took the case to court I would have good chances of a positive outcome (for me). As far as I understood, it boils down to:
- Switzerland is the only "home" the kids have ever known, all their friends are here, they have been studying in the Swiss system (in German) since kindergarten.
- My ex has a good job here, so she can't say she needs to go back to Sweden to provide for the kids.
- I have better chances of finding a job here than in Sweden (because I don't speak Swedish).
- My ex-wife and I share custody 50/50, so nobody gets to make unilateral decisions about the kids.
I plan on talking to my ex-wife this week about the situation and I will let her know my thoughts about her idea to move to Sweden. I really hope we can keep this amicable, but I am ready to fight for my kids if it comes down to that.
Thank you again for your kind comments. Wish me luck!
Posted by: Martin565 30.Nov.2020, 12:26 PM
Posted by: ChocOwl 30.Nov.2020, 12:29 PM
Someone posted a reply saying that your ex might move elsewhere in Sweden (far away, at your inconvenience) if she moves to Sweden however the above quoted text would also apply in Sweden. The consent of both parents is needed to change the registered residential address, school/preschool enrolment and stuff like that.
Posted by: Grommet 30.Nov.2020, 03:36 PM
Ya, sure. At least up to the point before you are completely screwed over by the Swedish system that considers men as "toxic" and all that other woke shit. And that will favour the "mother" almost every time.
C'mon Choccy, you've been, quite feebly, trying to cover over the "well-known" fact.
OP, great to hear. Glad Switzerland actually has some real equality, unlike in Sweden where "equality" is just a PR campaign and nothing more.
Posted by: Martin565 30.Nov.2020, 03:58 PM
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 30.Nov.2020, 04:09 PM
Waiting for the feminist solution to Sharia law...should be interesting...
Posted by: Grommet 1.Dec.2020, 04:53 AM
Ya, well, it looks like this:
But good point though Grandpa. Only FemBot crazed Sweden would import thousands of men from countries where women are treated like dogs.
It makes zero sense, but such is the Swedish way.
Personally, after watching that DW interview with Linde, I'd say she should stay covered.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 1.Dec.2020, 07:26 PM
But good point though Grandpa. Only FemBot crazed Sweden would import thousands of men from countries where women are treated like dogs.
It makes zero sense, but such is the Swedish way.
Personally, after watching that DW interview with Linde, I'd say she should stay covered.
Yeah, the EU had absolutely nothing to do with it. Germany had nothing to do with it. Denmark had nothing to do with it. Blame it all on Sweden.
Posted by: Cheeseroller 21.Dec.2020, 11:17 PM
After 14 years in Sweden, I would say that you nailed it here. IMO, the Swedes are the Japanese of Europe. Never say no, you will never know what they think, are more racist than their government projects and there are definite glass ceilings to foreigners, however well qualified or gifted - Swedes hate a foreigner who is better than them.
Zero conversation, unless drunk which they can use to overcome their fears and blame next day for their "excesses".
Groomed from childhood to believe Sweden is the best in the World without question and fed propaganda their whole lives. This is why so many accepted Swedens COVID lack of response, without question.
I moved to Germany and an enormous weight fell from my shoulders to be among normal people again. You made the right decision not to move. You would have blamed yourself for years for your failure to integrate, first lack of language and when you were fluent, what next?
And did I say boring?! If your hobby is picking mushrooms and walking through forests, ok. If you want culture, fine architecture, excellent museums, romantic weekend trips - look elsewhere! You cannot compare Stockholm or Gothenburg, to Milan, Paris, Munich, Geneva, Nice... or any of the hundreds of ancient cities in Europe that give joy of life.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 22.Dec.2020, 10:11 PM
Zero conversation, unless drunk which they can use to overcome their fears and blame next day for their "excesses".
Groomed from childhood to believe Sweden is the best in the World without question and fed propaganda their whole lives. This is why so many accepted Swedens COVID lack of response, without question.
I moved to Germany and an enormous weight fell from my shoulders to be among normal people again. You made the right decision not to move. You would have blamed yourself for years for your failure to integrate, first lack of language and when you were fluent, what next?
And did I say boring?! If your hobby is picking mushrooms and walking through forests, ok. If you want culture, fine architecture, excellent museums, romantic weekend trips - look elsewhere! You cannot compare Stockholm or Gothenburg, to Milan, Paris, Munich, Geneva, Nice... or any of the hundreds of ancient cities in Europe that give joy of life.
If you say so. You are wrong but who cares about reality?
Posted by: Evelyn 27.Dec.2020, 11:20 AM
When you file for divorce in Sweden, you will be asked if you have an agreement about the separation of financial assets and also about the custody of your 3 children who are all minors. If you do have an agreement, you will submit that to the court and the court will approve that in most cases. If you are not in agreement about financials and the custody then the court will decide.
Posted by: ChocOwl 29.Dec.2020, 10:01 AM
No, that is not what happens
Posted by: w_wallace 29.Dec.2020, 10:52 AM
Posted by: Grommet 31.Dec.2020, 05:08 PM
You've heard of reality? Doubt it.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 31.Dec.2020, 09:35 PM
Yepp and apparently it is a place you've never been to.
Posted by: kaism 1.Jan.2021, 04:49 AM
Posted by: ChocOwl 3.Jan.2021, 05:16 PM
Posted by: kaism 8.Jan.2021, 05:22 AM
Posted by: ChocOwl 8.Jan.2021, 01:14 PM
Reply to kaism
It is difficult to reply to your comments when they are embedded in a quote from my post. In any case you are unfortunately still incorrect. I am living the reality, as you put it. I have lived in Sweden for a couple of decades and seen others living the reality... so yeah sorry but you are wrong. I have however no idea about the red herring issue of services to children diagnosed with handicap.
Posted by: ChocOwl 11.Jan.2021, 04:03 PM
Yup. Providing some balance to the scaremongering.
The narrative that divorced, foreign parents have no parental rights in Sweden is rubbish. Sure, your ex can do some crazy shit but this happens in all countries. In Sweden this happens even in Swedish-Swedish ex-couples.
Nah my personal experience is recent, current and ongoing... I write based on this plus observations of the past 20 years.
If you are worried about not receiving paper post with information updates from the school I wonder what century you are referring to. Pretty sure the vast majority of schools have all info online on some kind of information platform these days.
Any change of residential address or school enrolment must be signed by both parents if there is joint custody. Yes, one parent can forge a signature or something, see my above comment on crazy shitty behaviour.
Oh dear. I just checked and no, I am not brainwashed.
But hey, if I was brainwashed I would probably not notice that I was, huh!?
Would you notice if you were brainwshed?
Okelidokely
Excellent advice for everyone in all situations
Posted by: Guest 11.Jan.2021, 05:06 PM
The narrative that divorced, foreign parents have no parental rights in Sweden is rubbish. Sure, your ex can do some crazy shit but this happens in all countries. In Sweden this happens even in Swedish-Swedish ex-couples.
Nah my personal experience is recent, current and ongoing... I write based on this plus observations of the past 20 years.
If you are worried about not receiving paper post with information updates from the school I wonder what century you are referring to. Pretty sure the vast majority of schools have all info online on some kind of information platform these days.
Any change of residential address or school enrolment must be signed by both parents if there is joint custody. Yes, one parent can forge a signature or something, see my above comment on crazy shitty behaviour.
Oh dear. I just checked and no, I am not brainwashed.
But hey, if I was brainwashed I would probably not notice that I was, huh!?
Would you notice if you were brainwshed?
Okelidokely
Excellent advice for everyone in all situations
Certainly for our kids, even though we are together, same house etc.. because we are both registered as parents and guardian's, then everything requires two signatures. If a child is off sick and you phone it in on the automated system, both get texts saying so. For school reports before covid these were face to face, twice yearly, and at our school the teachers would do it twice if split parents couldn't cope with both attending together, the child comes first, not arsey parents.
Posted by: Martin565 11.Jan.2021, 08:35 PM
Sweden has a high divorce rate
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 11.Jan.2021, 09:00 PM
Divorce!!!
People still get married???
Posted by: Guest 11.Jan.2021, 09:02 PM
Kind of slightly lateral, but our local hall was 60 yrs old a couple of years ago. We dug up lots of then and now facts. Percentage wise more people get married now, than did 60 years ago. Given how much society changes, folk travel, change jobs etc.. it is not surprising divorce rate is also higher.
But it's not as high here as many other places. https://www.statista.com/statistics/612207/divorce-rates-in-european-countries-per-100-marriages/
Posted by: Martin565 11.Jan.2021, 09:51 PM
But it's not as high here as many other places. https://www.statista.com/statistics/612207/divorce-rates-in-european-countries-per-100-marriages/
Probably because same sex marriage wasnt allowed then
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 11.Jan.2021, 09:58 PM
X10
Posted by: ChocOwl 12.Jan.2021, 11:07 AM
I see that as a positive sign -- people do not stay in shitty relationships.
Countries with a lower divorce rate do not necessarily have a higher rate of healthy relationships. For example, in Sweden in say 1900 a woman would risk losing custody of her children if she divorced, so there was pressure to stay in an unhealthy relationship even if she was subject to violence or whatever.
Posted by: Martin565 12.Jan.2021, 11:16 AM
Posted by: Grommet 13.Jan.2021, 05:35 AM
Care to actually back-up what you are saying? In the link you apparently use for that purpose, you can't see a thing. My guess is you are up to your usual non-sense.
People get divorced more nowadays for many reasons. One of them, especially in MeatHeadia, is that there are more, spoiled, entitled selfish people than ever before, who are incapable of meeting anyone halfway, when things go tits up.
Those who just can't handle that the world does not revolve for them alone.
Posted by: Guest 13.Jan.2021, 07:00 AM
People get divorced more nowadays for many reasons. One of them, especially in MeatHeadia, is that there are more, spoiled, entitled selfish people than ever before, who are incapable of meeting anyone halfway, when things go tits up.
Those who just can't handle that the world does not revolve for them alone.
I don't care. I wasn't trying to make any point. It's just information.
Posted by: Grommet 13.Jan.2021, 08:45 AM
Indeed. Bullshitters rarely care about the accuracy of what they say.
Not the first time you include useless links, why bother? Are you some kind of bot?
Next time you come here to "not make any point", why not just shut up?
Posted by: Guest 13.Jan.2021, 09:10 AM
Not the first time you include useless links, why bother? Are you some kind of bot?
Next time you come here to "not make any point", why not just shut up?
Still jealous I see. You so wish you were in sweden, why else would you keep ranting like a love sick teenager pretending you hate sweden.
Posted by: Grommet 14.Jan.2021, 05:58 PM
Deflecting again, when backed into a corner. Shocking.
You, and the other UK twats here, just change the subject when you are bested.
Pathetic. No wonder you couldn't handle your own country. You'd be getting your pans knocked in constantly.
Posted by: Martin565 14.Jan.2021, 06:40 PM
You, and the other UK twats here, just change the subject when you are bested.
Pathetic. No wonder you couldn't handle your own country. You'd be getting your pans knocked in constantly.
Who are the U.K. twats, name names
Posted by: kilgore 15.Jan.2021, 12:38 AM
I am new to this forum which I found whilst I was doing some online research on my situation. I signed up to start this thread, as I thought some kind forum members could give me advice.
I am a dual citizen (UK/ German) currently living in Switzerland. I separated from my Swedish wife of 10 years around a year ago, and we are due to start divorce proceedings soon. We will be divorcing in Sweden as it is really expensive in Switzerland. We have three kids (3, 6, and 10) who have all been born and raised in Switzerland. We share the custody of the kids 50/50. As a family, we have never lived in Sweden, although we have spent holidays and summers there over the years. The kids are Swedish nationals and speak Swedish with their mother, although their schooling has been in German.
I have lost my job as a result of the Covid pandemic, and I am in the process of job hunting, although the job market is not too promising at the moment. I have been unemployed for 6 months now, but thankfully the unemployment insurance system here is amazing so I will get paid a decent monthly "salary" until the end of 2021. My ex-wife has a fantastic job here and she makes multiples of what I used to earn before losing my job.
Recently, my ex-wife told me she is thinking to move to Sweden with the kids. She has been wanting to move back home for years now, but I have always been adamant that I don't want to move to Sweden. She says that the kids will have access to better and cheaper education in Sweden, and that given that I am now unemployed in Switzerland, it makes more sense for everyone to leave this country at this stage.
I am freaking out. I love my kids and I don't want to leave them. I don't even know where else I could go, as I don't have any family left or any real ties to my home countries. I am considering whether moving to Sweden with them could make sense, but I am concerned as 1) I don't speak the language, 2) my employment opportunities would be pretty bad, 3) I am not a fan of the Swedish mindset/ lagom/ jantelagen and all that jazz.
I have booked an appointment with a layer of course, but I wanted to hear the opinions of other expats who live in Sweden. Do you think it would be a mad idea for me to move to Sweden with my ex and my kids? Do you think I have any legal grounds to fight her decision?
Thank you for any advice.
Moving to a new country is always a challenge, but please be mindful that Sweden is one of the most challenging places to start a new life in.
Most people in Sweden don't do much outside work. Building a social circle in Sweden can take many years, and even so don't expect frequent interaction besides going out for a drink once in a while on the weekend. You better enjoy sports and nature or have plenty hobbies you can enjoy on your own.
Posted by: Guest 15.Jan.2021, 06:58 AM
They do go out, doing all the things you list.
They haven't been sat around for 20, 30, 40years waiting for an immigrant to arrive as their new best buddy. Like most adults they likely have too little time as it is (non covid year).
Posted by: kilgore 15.Jan.2021, 10:24 AM
They haven't been sat around for 20, 30, 40years waiting for an immigrant to arrive as their new best buddy. Like most adults they likely have too little time as it is (non covid year).
This again.
I've known (sometimes befriended) many expats from all over the world during my my decade in Sweden, and the vast majority voice similar complaints.
Sweden has never been known for its vibrant social or cultural life, and Swedes are well known for not talking to strangers or engaging in small talk. Of course that may or may not be a problem for you specifically depending on what your interests and hobbies are, but lots of people find it alienating and boring.
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 10:37 AM
Posted by: Grommet 15.Jan.2021, 10:48 AM
Posted by: Grommet 15.Jan.2021, 10:49 AM
They haven't been sat around for 20, 30, 40years waiting for an immigrant to arrive as their new best buddy.
Yes they have. And the red carpet too.
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 10:58 AM
They are causing me great inconvenience
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 15.Jan.2021, 02:33 PM
There are some that rely on others to make them content and satisfied with life...
And there are others that don't!!!
They ones that don't do not complain about Swedes not being entertaining and outwardly social, as the others deem they should...
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 02:58 PM
And there are others that don't!!!
They ones that don't do not complain about Swedes not being entertaining and outwardly social, as the others deem they should...
The people that don?t complain would That would be the people don?t like social interaction or developing friendships. Seeing as we?re a very social species I would say they are the people with perhaps not contentment
Posted by: Guest 15.Jan.2021, 03:29 PM
I've known (sometimes befriended) many expats from all over the world during my my decade in Sweden, and the vast majority voice similar complaints.
Sweden has never been known for its vibrant social or cultural life, and Swedes are well known for not talking to strangers or engaging in small talk. Of course that may or may not be a problem for you specifically depending on what your interests and hobbies are, but lots of people find it alienating and boring.
Is it not really because people who have always lived in sweden, have school friends, neighbours, uni friends, work mates, people they know from hobbies and sports etc.. why would they have the time just because some needy expat has shown up? And that's before you consider a partner, their friends, kids etc...
The people who say they've made loads of new acquaintances are usually meeting other expats in very mobile populations or career sectors.
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 03:54 PM
Posted by: Guest 15.Jan.2021, 04:54 PM
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 05:32 PM
Posted by: Guest 15.Jan.2021, 05:50 PM
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 06:01 PM
Posted by: pepitoAndalucia 15.Jan.2021, 07:21 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 15.Jan.2021, 08:49 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 15.Jan.2021, 08:50 PM
sweden is no country for independent thinking, but for people who have a hive mind set.
Watch the documentary "the swedish theory of love".
I recently lost one of my jobs. I had most of the knowledge about how to do things in that job. My boss used me, I was working by the hour with no paid vacation and no paid sick leave, he hired a guy who fainted during work hours because he couldn't keep up with my work pace, that same guy used to miss work because according to him "he didn't have enough energy to work". But despite it If I had missed one day of work I wouldn't have enjoyed of the same privileges as the native swede.
I provided technical support to my colleagues and had the knowledge of how things worked in that job.
But I made the mistake to not behave like a passive, submissive robot and in less than one month my boss made me teach everything I knew to that incompetent who couldn't keep up with me at work and the rest of the team I worked with and when that happened they took one by one each one of my tasks away and then they fired me with false reports saying I wasn't doing my job.
swedes are EVIL.
swedes cannot be trusted, they are very deceptive and falsely polite.
sweden is the country the globalists would love to see for the rest of the world. That's why sweden has always enjoyed privileges that's why in sweden right now nobody requires face masks while the rest of the world is in lockdowns or facemasks and that's why sweden and swedes provokes so much anger because people know something is off about this country and it's nothing good.
Who let you out for good behaviour?
Posted by: Martin565 15.Jan.2021, 08:50 PM
People have unrealistic expectations today. Want too much, travel too much consume too much. It's unsustainable.
We have more forms of entertainment than ever before, more TV channels than ever before yet people are more bored than ever before.
"The most bored people are usually the most boring!"
Some people like that stuff like travelling consuming just like you like bicycle seats
Posted by: kilgore 16.Jan.2021, 05:45 PM
Posted by: Martin565 16.Jan.2021, 05:50 PM
Posted by: pepitoAndalucia 16.Jan.2021, 05:51 PM
Are you still taking antidepressants?.
Posted by: kilgore 16.Jan.2021, 06:01 PM
We are definitely a social species. Social media makes people depressed because it replaces actual human interaction with a poor facsimile of it.
Many studies have found that the number and depth of human relationships have a deep impact on mood and well being, as well as other aspects such as job and career opportunities, which also correlate with a happy life.
I don't know many millenials or younger who "want too much". They find consuming for the sake of consuming shallow and boring. Most people under 40 just want to make the most out of their lives by having memorable experiences.
The quality of mass entertainment is usually really poor because it has to pander to as many people as possible and be careful not to say anything of relevance or importance. So it really doesn't matter if you have 100 or 1000 channels if you can't find even one damn thing worth watching.
This is plainly not true. Most people thrive in some environments but not others.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 16.Jan.2021, 08:55 PM
Do you prefer cycling while sitting on the metal pole? I figured.
You may be correct that people like that stuff but that wasn't the point. Even people who like things makes them depressed. You are depressed.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 16.Jan.2021, 08:56 PM
Yes. Your point is?
Posted by: Martin565 16.Jan.2021, 09:00 PM
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 16.Jan.2021, 09:00 PM
Many studies have found that the number and depth of human relationships have a deep impact on mood and well being, as well as other aspects such as job and career opportunities, which also correlate with a happy life.
I don't know many millenials or younger who "want too much". They find consuming for the sake of consuming shallow and boring. Most people under 40 just want to make the most out of their lives by having memorable experiences.
The quality of mass entertainment is usually really poor because it has to pander to as many people as possible and be careful not to say anything of relevance or importance. So it really doesn't matter if you have 100 or 1000 channels if you can't find even one damn thing worth watching.
This is plainly not true. Most people thrive in some environments but not others.
Humans haven't evolved to have the type of social circles we have today.
If you don't know many younger people who want too much then you don't know many younger people.
Posted by: Guest 16.Jan.2021, 09:07 PM
If you don't know many younger people who want too much then you don't know many younger people.
Indeed, the fashion and tech industry thrives off the under 30s wanting the latest must haves.
I think with tech social circles aren't private anymore, folk become too self aware and insecure, instead of just doing what they want all day, no status updates, no Snapchat image of lunch etc.. just off radar pleasing only themselves.
Posted by: Martin565 16.Jan.2021, 09:14 PM
Posted by: Guest 16.Jan.2021, 09:32 PM
Posted by: Martin565 16.Jan.2021, 09:43 PM
Posted by: pepitoAndalucia 16.Jan.2021, 11:38 PM
Why?. Don't you live in sweden, the utopian and the happiest country on earth?.
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 17.Jan.2021, 12:36 AM
Yes, your point is?
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 17.Jan.2021, 10:09 PM
I guess you've had your internet privileges takes away from you and have been placed back in your padded cell.
Posted by: ChocOwl 18.Jan.2021, 09:42 AM
Oh dear. The OP disappeared a few pages ago, now there are just a few people squabbling about this n that.
Posted by: Gamla Hälsingebock 18.Jan.2021, 03:03 PM
The way of Thelocal
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 18.Jan.2021, 09:01 PM
If you took away the squabbling then this forum would be dead. In the same way if you removed all the porn from the internet there would only be one website left and that would be called 'bring back the porn!'
Posted by: Grommet 19.Jan.2021, 10:37 AM
Gay porn? Is there really sucha thing?
Posted by: ChocOwl 19.Jan.2021, 11:02 AM
Nah.
I wrote "squabbling" but I really meant "demonstrating toxic masculinity".
Here is an example...
Posted by: TheExpatEagle 19.Jan.2021, 11:24 AM
As your man.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)