(edit title) Australia or Sweden Advices please! Options

[jackiejunkie]

I think there are a very large number of foreign-trained doctor sin Sweden.A DN article from 2013 says:Mer ?n h?lften av de l?karlegitimationer som utf?rdas av Socialstyrelsen ... (show full quote)

I think there are a very large number of foreign-trained doctor sin Sweden.
A DN article from 2013 says:
Mer ?n h?lften av de l?karlegitimationer som utf?rdas av Socialstyrelsen ges till personer utbildade utomlands.
More than half the doctor licences issued in Sweden are to foreign-trained doctors.
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/utlandet-...ige-med-lakare/ ... (hide full quote)

I think you didn't understand my post correctly. What you mean could be correct because the process for obtaining license for medical professionals is different depending whether you are trained in EU or non-EU. EU trained professionals don't have to take tests for their respective fields. They just have to pass the Swedish language skills test.

Whereas for non-EU professionals, they have to take their respective professional tests in Swedish on top of the Swedish language tests. Your article doesn't say where majority of the doctors who are trained abroad come from.

I can't find the SCB document now, but that document showed country by country statistics for all medial professionals in Sweden. So my reply was based on those facts.

[Opalnera]

There are about as many Indian doctors in Australia as there are taxi drivers (ie heaps) so it must be possible.

[Buzzs]

Thanks for the replies friends, I really appreciate it!

To be precise, my wife's a dentist and I actually have explored a bit earlier about her prospects in Australia. What is said here is correct, any medical professional needs to undergo theory and practical with two attempts to do the same. And yes its tough, but its a profession you cannot take half measures. She has a friend in Australia who has also taken this hard route and cleared exams. Since she does speak English, she would have to focus on her domain only. Perhaps Sweden would be the same. If that is the case then i think she would certainly not want to do the same thing thrice (actually including study in India). May be being an apprentice could be an option while in Sweden, if possible.

But honestly speaking what we are looking for is mainly her to be occupied during the day in something related to her profession. Even if it is not full fledged dentistry something close would do too. I think she'd be happy with something like that and can prepare for Aus exam during this time.

As long as we are able to live decently in Sweden for this tenure on my salary, travel around once in a while, save a bit for Aus, she would be okay to just be engaged.

Actually this brings me to another question, what would be a decent/acceptable salary to have that sort of a life in Sweden? In my mind, we should be able to eat normally, go out maybe once a week, shop once in a while, travel around a bit, and possibly save a little. I have not had any concrete discussions with my employer on compensation yet. Would highly appreciate any inputs on this front!!!

[Opalnera]

http://www.lonestatistik.se/loner.asp is a decent guide for salary expectations.

[Buzzs]

Thanks Opalnera! The link provides what could be a typical salary industry and area wise, which is really good.

But is that going to be sufficient for a family of 3 to lead an enjoyable life? What is the bare minimum needed considering some of things i wish to do while in Sweden? If the compensation falls below this range, i think it would be easier for me to make a decision.

Cheers!

[rachel.nz]

Hey, I have been living in Ume? for a little more than a year now, so thought i'd throw in my two cents worth.

There is a dentist school here in Ume?, so maybe you and your wife should look into whether she can get something like a teaching or research position, if practicing as a dentist is out of the question, - I know a dentist who works at the hospital/university (Norrlands universitetssjukhus) and she is always mentioning having foreigners(visitors working with her.

How old is your child? There are SO many international people here in Ume?, that most of the schools have a whole class for kids who are learning Swedish as a foreign language, also your child will get extra help with their schooling from a qualified teacher who speaks the language that your child speaks, so your child will be well looked after. Your child will learn Swedish very fast, regardless of their age, it is just the bonus of being stuck in school where they need it.

Also, your wife will have access to free Swedish classes, starting with SFI (swedish for immigrants) and moving on Komvux (free adult education), which as she is an educated dentist, should be no problem for her so long as she's motivated to learn, and there are also opportunities to pay for better quality courses where you get more one on one teaching and so on, but I don't see the worth in those, as when in the country you can immerse yourself with TV/radio/reading the newspaper/making Swedish friends/shopping etc. But as others mentioned, it will be a long while before she will master enough Swedish to practice as a dentist (unfortunately, most likely 2-3 years, but with motivation and the time, 1 year).

And as mentioned already in this thread, Ume? is a great little university town, plenty of cultural diversity, plenty of well-educated professionals in your age group, plenty of families, lovely nature and so on. The only downfall to Ume? is a the winter darkness which can be exhausting and even take a toll on your health, but as long as your busy and eat healthy, exercise, etc, then come January(Feb you will have already forgotten the terrible november/december period.

But there is no point trying to compare the experience of living in Ume? to living in one of Australia's bigger cities.. it all depends on you and your family, and your wants and needs. But I wholeheartedly recommend to come here and give it a go, for at least a year, it will be an experience you'll never forget - and Aus will always be there!


In regards to salary, what is the job title/industry/company/and how much experience do you have? then we can give you a more reasonable expectation of salary. Here is another webpage I'd recommend you check out,
http://allastudier.se/jobb-o-l%C3%B6n/
In terms of tax you can expect to pay 30-40% depending on your income. The average working Swede will end up with 22,557 SEK in the pocket per month. Probably not enough to support your wife and child and live a great life, but definitely enough to live an average life. And if your wife finds a job she'll obviously be contributing around this much as well, so then you'll have a great life (taking into account you don't have any big loans or so on).
Although considering you've been head-hunted, I assume you'll be earning much more than the average wage?

[ahalim]

I'm an Australian Citizen who has just moved to work in Lule?, another country town in Northern Sweden. I've just been here for 5 months. I originally come from Indonesia but lived in Australia between 2000 and 2014 so I believe that I can offer a quite objective view on both countries.

To me, Australia was a very nice place to live and work until in the past four years when cost of everything went through the roof. During my 14 years in Australia, I lived in Brisbane (2000-2006), Central Queensland coalfield (2006-2008), and Kalgoorlie-Boulder (2008-2014). My time in Brisbane was the most enjoyable as everything was cheap at that time, about 40 - 50% of today's prices. I visited Brisbane in December last year and I found that the city is no longer the city when I was living in there as everything is so expensive. Fuel is even more expensive than that in my then residence, Kalgoorlie-Boulder, which is a country town. And it is not the most expensive place in Australia as Sydney, Melbourne, and Perth are more expensive than Brisbane. In general, living in Australia currently is really tough due to high prices. In fact, some recent surveys found that living in Australia is more expensive than living in the United States, which was not the case when I migrated to Australia in 2000. Also, the economy condition of Australia is in a very bad shape at the moment, mostly caused by high cost to run a business, and the decline of demand from China and India on Australia's mining products. In the past two years, many companies, including multi national companies, have cut thousands of jobs. The government is also doing a huge cost cutting throughout its agencies. Australia's economy depends heavily on China and India as they are the largest importer of Australian products (Australia's economy depends heavily of exporting its mining and agricultural products). Therefore, you only need to see the economy condition of China and India to predict your prospect in Australia.

I found that prices in Lule?, which I believe are similar with those in Ume?, are slightly cheaper than the ones I experienced in Australia in the past four years. The social security system in Sweden is much better than that in Australia. The health cost is much cheaper than that in Australia. I also found that Sweden's economy condition is better than Australia's at the moment. This is the main reason of why I decided to move to Sweden. Note that living in country areas like Northern Sweden in cheaper than in big cities like Stockholm. This is currently not the case in Australia where living in big cities and in country areas are equally very expensive.

Long term vision? Honestly I don't know and I don't think that anyone can accurately predict the future in Australia and in Sweden. However, from what's going on these days, it seems that future in Sweden is better than that in Australia. But this may change.

[Opalnera]

I'm not really sure how you came to those facts but at present, unemployment is better and the economy is better in Australia which is why it's the 4th most expensive country in the world. I also visited Brisbane last year and was a bit shocked by how much the prices had gone up but then I was also extremely shocked by how much money all my friends and family are earning there now. A dentist would expect to get at least 50000kr a month compared to Ume? where the average dentist starts around 30000kr a month. I actually did a comparison using this website: "You would need around 6,038.76A$ (37,978.42kr) in Brisbane to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 30,000.00kr in Umea (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index."

I recently got offered a job in Brisbane paying about 40000kr a month. I'm considering taking it. When I left there 4 years ago I was getting paid 30000kr a month for the exact same job.

[Buzzs]

Thank you for wonderful insights guys. This really gives me a well rounded information on what i can expect when in Umea (if i choose of course!).

rachel.nz, my wife's not too motivated to learn a new language as of now, especially if it is going to be temporary stay. Best thing for her would be to be able to continue in english with may be picking up a little bit of Swedish on the way. That's as of today, i hope things change if we move there. As for my daughter she's 6 and i agree, she might be able to learn quickest amongst us. My details, i work in software industry as an architect with around 10+ experience. I have gone through links provided and got a high level idea on what usually people earn, but would love to hear your thoughts for sure.

ahalim & Opalnera, thanks for your inputs. I guess it is very difficult to predict the job situation in coming years for any place especially in these volatile times. So may be we can't be sure about things in longer run, however I'm an optimist by nature so would want to believe things would be fine. Since I am yet to get on with negotiations, what i'm really looking for is to know what would be a good figure to have a decent life. I only want to make this move if it's going to be liveable for three of us. For calculations sake i'd assume my wife may not work so i'll base my decision to move on what i will be offered. I really want to know the threshold number where i could say yes or no. Any thoughts???

For Aus, through my research and friends i know what can i expect there. I think i also know what is the minimum i should have to support a family of three there. But for Sweden or Umea i'm not sure what i should settle for.

Another aspect that haunts me is the age/experience after two years (if i move to Sweden and then plan for Aus). Do you think more exp. and age would affect my chances of landing a job easily? I mean if i go to Aus now and start the journey, perhaps in 2 years time i might be well settled there and would not have worry about these things reaching my 40's. Whereas if i spend the next two years in Swden and then decide that may be it wasn't for me, would that be a struggle in any way? Any insights would be helpful.

Cheers!

[ben18616]

A few people have mentioned that healthcare is cheaper in Sweden. I don't believe this is the case. My experience recently has been higher out of pocket costs in Sweden and a quality of service that is not as good. Having said this I believe both systems are of high quality and affordable.

Emergency care/hospital admission in Australia: free
Visiting you GP in Australia: free (if you choose a bulk billing doctor)
Essential specialist services: free (if you choose a bulk billing service)
All the above services in Sweden: between 100kr -350 kr per visit (capped at 1100kr per patient per year )

Pharmaceuticals in Aus: max $36.40 per prescription ($6 if you are a on a low income)
Pharmaceuticals in Sweden: market price but capped at 2200 kr per patient per year

[ahalim]

It is true that hospital admission is free IF the hospital is a public one. However, the waiting list is usually long. It's the same situation with bulk billing GP and specialists. Medicare, which is the government provided health care in Australia, does not cover physiotherapists, optometrists and dentists. My wife has a regular back problem so when we were in Australia we had to visit physios regularly, on average every two weeks. We bought a private health insurance policy that partially covered physio fee ($200 / SEK 1260 per month) but each physio visit still costed us about $40 (SEK 250). Here in Lule?, we only paid SEK 125 for each physio visit, and after 9 visits, it is free for the rest of the year after my wife is registered into Swedish social security system. This cost is probably more expensive in big cities like Stockholm, G?thenburg, and Malm?.

However, I agree that both countries' system have good quality.

[gumbi]

interesting discussion ..

just want to add that please consider the taxes paid upfront when comparing the two countries.

For example, in Sweden you pay 4.35% sjukf

[*Guest*]

I risk to seem the layman, but nevertheless I will ask, whence it and who in general has written?

?, ???...

[FindusKatt]

Hmm... I would think Australia in the long term is good for both you, your wife, and child. There is no need to spend time on language for you adults, that takes a lot of time, given your age now. It's not a big problem for your kid on this sole aspect. Your wife would end up struggling with language, unemployed and depending on you for quite a while, unless she is willing to take some job that might not be very desirable... I knew at least two couples with similar case (husband offered a job, and wife is very unhappy and jobless, even they try to learn Swedish...) have moved away. It requires MORE EFFORT to integrate into Swedish society than Australia given your background (age, career, language etc).

Although there are also tons of advantage of Sweden, at the moment for you, a job offer, help for relocation, free language classes and education for your wife and kid, easy access to traveling around Europe.

If you don't get sick too often and require long-term treatment I wouldn't think too much on Sweden.. in the long-term it might be cheap, but in the short term it's more costy, and I heard the efficiency is very bad, waiting list can be very long too.

Maybe you should work out a list of gain points and lose points for both countries, and compare with statistics. Or if possible, perhaps visiting both places as holidays before the decision?

[Gamla Hälsingebock]

With the unrest in the African/near east world and their proximity to Europe, I would go to Australia!!!