(edit title) Self employed taxation Making sense of it Options

[JonathanR]

Forgive me for posting a thread addressing our own likely situation for when we're going to be in Sweden, as opposed to trying to extrapolate the information from historic posts.

So, obviously we'll be paying far more tax in Sweden than in the UK. I have no problem with that. If I did, Sweden wouldn't be the right choice for us.

We're planning to run a small forestry company there, subcontracting to larger companies to produce pulpwood and biomass at roadside. Perhaps some sawlog too. Anyway, we're anticipating that our turnover will be about 42000SEK per week (on the basis of a 6 day week - me doing three days, a subbie doing three days), with wages of approximately 2000SEK a day for the machine operator on those three days. I reckon we'd have business expenses relating to the machine/business of 15000SEK per week too. So that leaves 21000SEK gross profit per week.

Do I need to pay any additional tax for my subcontractor? What would be the most tax-efficient way of structuring a business to benefit from the profit that it makes?

Also, I am hoping to have income from the UK ongoing after we take up residency in Sweden. We'd presumably pay tax on that too in Sweden? This is likely to be about 450000SEK per annum.

It's interesting that what I've come across seems to imply that setting up as a small company can mean a high tax bill if you are not careful. Perhaps it's unavoidable.

Anyway, if anyone with experience or knowledge on the matter can chime in, I'd be very appreciative. Forgive my candour as regards anticipated income - I don't share the British sense of extreme embarrassment as regards to talking about income, and if I wasn't specific, I'd get some very vague answers!

Thanks in advance!

[TheExpatEagle]

Forgive me for posting a thread addressing our own likely situation for when we're going to be in Sweden, as opposed to trying to extrapolate the information from historic ... (show full quote)

Forgive me for posting a thread addressing our own likely situation for when we're going to be in Sweden, as opposed to trying to extrapolate the information from historic posts.

So, obviously we'll be paying far more tax in Sweden than in the UK. I have no problem with that. If I did, Sweden wouldn't be the right choice for us.

We're planning to run a small forestry company there, subcontracting to larger companies to produce pulpwood and biomass at roadside. Perhaps some sawlog too. Anyway, we're anticipating that our turnover will be about 42000SEK per week (on the basis of a 6 day week - me doing three days, a subbie doing three days), with wages of approximately 2000SEK a day for the machine operator on those three days. I reckon we'd have business expenses relating to the machine/business of 15000SEK per week too. So that leaves 21000SEK gross profit per week.

Do I need to pay any additional tax for my subcontractor? What would be the most tax-efficient way of structuring a business to benefit from the profit that it makes?

Also, I am hoping to have income from the UK ongoing after we take up residency in Sweden. We'd presumably pay tax on that too in Sweden? This is likely to be about 450000SEK per annum.

It's interesting that what I've come across seems to imply that setting up as a small company can mean a high tax bill if you are not careful. Perhaps it's unavoidable.

Anyway, if anyone with experience or knowledge on the matter can chime in, I'd be very appreciative. Forgive my candour as regards anticipated income - I don't share the British sense of extreme embarrassment as regards to talking about income, and if I wasn't specific, I'd get some very vague answers!

Thanks in advance! ... (hide full quote)

The Swedes don't talk about their income either least of all because they all earn different amounts for the same job unless they are a bus driver.

An employed person in Sweden actually pays less income tax than in the UK. However an employer pays more employee contributions than a UK employer does. VAT (MOMS) on the other hand is higher.

That aside, I would contact an accountant or Skatteverket rather than rely on advice in the group as I suspect you'd prefer to have water tight information?

[Grommet]

Something to seriously consider when contacting Swedish authorities, especially concerning immigration and taxation, is that you may find you get several different answers (to the same question) depending with whom you speak.

One thing you can do is to always ask for the person's name who answered. No one does that it would seem, and it catches their attention.

This is based on my personal experience where I repeatedly got bad information and noticed after repeated contacts that while the questions were always the same, the answers weren't.

For personal visits, physically print out sections of the web-pages you used, in English and Swedish, and have them in your hand, ready to present.

I know, I know, no eternal optimism here. But once I started doing these things, I found huge improvements in the "service" offered.

Also when you post any documents, make sure to have it tracked and signed for. I had at one point sent in my residence permit renewal forms, only to be contacted (well after the deadline had passed) and asked why I had not sent in my forms. In essence, MV had "lost" them. 3 months later, they found them, and many months after that, I received my updated residence permission. In total it should have taken 3 months, and it took more than 8-9 months. During which time I could not leave Sweden without of having problems to re-enter.

Also be prepared for many "re-starts". People tend to go on sick-leave at an abnormally high rate. That means a case-worker gets so far into your case, leaves for some reason, and your case is then passed to a new case-worker. And then rather than picking up from the point of progress of the previous handler, the whole process essentially starts from the beginning again. For a single application, this can happen many times.

Might not happen to you and your family, but then again it might since from what I gather, these problems are not isolated cases.

Good luck!

[skogsbo]

You'll just invoice the land owners for your work. Machine wise you'll be looking at 900/1000kr per hour and up depending on your machine etc. Out of thst it's upto you what you pay. You won't be competing with any locals if you are only paying 2000kr a day!! You have no tax commitments related to either the land owner or initial contractor if a larger company, only your own workers and vat.

Ps. You won't get a skilled forest worker or trades person out of bed for less than 400/500kr.

It's not normal for a person like yourself to have employees straight away. It's more likely they'll be self employed too, only doing most of their work for you and thus be responsible for their own tax after invoicing you.

[JonathanR]

[TheExpatEagle]

Something to seriously consider when contacting Swedish authorities, especially concerning immigration and taxation, is that you may find you get several different answers (to ... (show full quote)

Something to seriously consider when contacting Swedish authorities, especially concerning immigration and taxation, is that you may find you get several different answers (to the same question) depending with whom you speak.

One thing you can do is to always ask for the person's name who answered. No one does that it would seem, and it catches their attention.

This is based on my personal experience where I repeatedly got bad information and noticed after repeated contacts that while the questions were always the same, the answers weren't.

For personal visits, physically print out sections of the web-pages you used, in English and Swedish, and have them in your hand, ready to present.

I know, I know, no eternal optimism here. But once I started doing these things, I found huge improvements in the "service" offered.

Also when you post any documents, make sure to have it tracked and signed for. I had at one point sent in my residence permit renewal forms, only to be contacted (well after the deadline had passed) and asked why I had not sent in my forms. In essence, MV had "lost" them. 3 months later, they found them, and many months after that, I received my updated residence permission. In total it should have taken 3 months, and it took more than 8-9 months. During which time I could not leave Sweden without of having problems to re-enter.

Also be prepared for many "re-starts". People tend to go on sick-leave at an abnormally high rate. That means a case-worker gets so far into your case, leaves for some reason, and your case is then passed to a new case-worker. And then rather than picking up from the point of progress of the previous handler, the whole process essentially starts from the beginning again. For a single application, this can happen many times.

Might not happen to you and your family, but then again it might since from what I gather, these problems are not isolated cases.

Good luck! ... (hide full quote)

I completely agree with the above post. It is surprising how some general information isn't known by some people working with 'customers' be it the tax office, unemployment agency or shop workers.

As for people being sick (read VAB too) this happens all too often even in the jobs I've had. In my last job it took 14 months to design a tri-fold leaflet because meetings were cancelled because of sickness, VAB (home with sick kids) and so on then it had to travel up the chain and then back down.

People don't make decisions if it isn't their job to do so because of Jantel?g or just not wanting to do more than their job.

It might not happen to you but chances are it will and be a lot worse in smaller communities.

[TheExpatEagle]

[JonathanR]

Sorry to sound like a broken record but do you think you will be able to bring someone over with you? They will need a work permit unless you want them to work illegally?

That is the plan. He's as sick of the UK as me, and plans to split his time between forestry in Sweden in Spring/Summer/Autumn and Winter in Italy, felling there.

Forestry and tree surgery sees people moving all around Europe on a regular basis. I know it won't be that simple thanks to Brexit, but I've worked with the chap for a long time and we work well together.

[ChocOwl]