(edit title) Moving to teach in Sweden Helo! Advice needed! Options

[ScoTboY]

Hi! Can anyone give me some advice, please? I am a qualified primary school teacher in England and have a job interview in two weeks' time with an independent Swedish primary school (where Swedish children are taught Swedish National Curriculum subjects entirely in English!) I have always been keen on Sweden, but my wife, who is English, isn't up for it at all!!! My wife is worried because we're expecting our second baby in March and she is convinced that a teacher's salary in Sweden won't be sufficient to support all of us. If it isn't that, she keeps on going on about the high taxes which means we will be in a worse off situation compared to England. Is she right? Maybe I'm living in cloud cuckoo land where I imagine Sweden to be a brilliant place for raising children with a high quality of life. I'm just tired of living in England with its yob/hoodie/chav culture and want to move to a country where the majority of people are more civilized. I'm orginally from Scotland and imagine Sweden to be similar to Scotland with regards to its nature/landscape and size of population ... maybe the Swedes are more reserved than the Scots! I would be very grateful if you could give me some advice on the following: what kind of net salary should I negotiate without being ridiculous and sounding unrealistic? As my wife will be looking after our children for the first two years, what support does the state provide mothers (who have a tax-paying husband), i.e. child benefit or something like that? What other things should I be considering if my interview is successful? I'd be very grateful for any advice at all!

Thank you.

[Rick Methven]

How much money do you need?

I'm afraid its a bit like 'how long is a piece of string' it depends on where you live and what style of life you want. I should think that a net income of 20,000 Kronor(£1,800) per month would be the minimum you would require.

One fact of life here is that most families rely on both parents working. affordable and plentiful child care enables most mums to keep working. The child benefit allowance is also good so that helps.

Puffin is our resident expert on these matter, she will most probably be able to help more than I am.

Being a Scot, you should find Sweden to your liking. I do

Good luck with the interview

[Furu]

The answer for support question.

Approximately 1000kr per child per month is paid as child benefit.

[ScoTboY]

Dear Rick and Furu,

Thanks for the quick feedback. I've got 14 days to convince my wife that moving to Sweden is a positive step!!! Again, thanks a million guys. Rick, how long have you been living in Sweden and where in Scotland are you 'fae'? Is the climate in Southern Sweden similar to Scotland? It's not dark all day during the winter, is it? About the salary, I never would have become a teacher if I wanted to become rich! I wanted to know what a 'fair' salary would be and what you quoted made me

Thanks again!

[Puffin]

Teachers salaries are not as high - usually for qualified teachers the starting salary for Primary would be in the range 22,000-25,000 kronor per month before tax.

In addition you will receive 1050 in child allowance

Also your wife should be entitled to the 'guarantee' (ie lowest) level of maternity pay if the baby is born in Sweden - which is around 5400 krnor per month before tax.

Taxes in Sweden are a bit higher than in the UK - your income tax varies depending on which Local Area you live in - most people on your sort of salary pay around 29-33% - which includes national insurance etc. Many people still think of the 1970s where Swedes were paying 90% taxes.

If your wife decides at some point to return to work you will be much better off as nursery places are heavily subsidised in Sweden - the most you pay is aroun £25 per week including breakfast, cooked lunch and several fruits/snacks

It may be tight in the first year - the Swedish culture assumes both parents working - although if you are prepared to live a simple lifestyle and like the outdoors then a lot is free or low cost (forests, swimming lakes cross country skiing trails, local skating rinks etc etc).

A lot depends also where you are going to live - a teachers salary may not go too far in Stockholm whereas in other areas it is possible to get by on one salary. I live around 2-2½ hours from Stockholm and property prices are very low - you can easily get a 3 or 4 bedroom house for £50-80K.

Living out here in the country I have found Sweden to be a wonderful place to bring up children - much less materialistic than the culture in the UK that I see when I visit family and friends. Children have a lot more freedom here from the 'tick box' culture. I remember when my brother's family visited they were suprised to meet my DD (age 6) having her PE lesson outdoors in minu 20C - they were skting on the 1 metre thick lake ice

[CTIDinÅrsta]

I found a link with some stats for spring 2009 I would think that the scales that apply to you are:
____________ 10:e percentil / Median / 90:e percentil
Grundskollärare 4-9 23000 26000 30500 (/month, gross)
Grundskollärare 1-7 23000 26000 30000
Tax is about 30%. You will have a lower take-home pay than in the UK, but as parents of two you will probably be net winners in the Swedish system. How much money you'll need depends partly on where the School is. If it's in one of the cities then renting somewhere to live is going to take a large chunk out of your salary. A sub-let somewhere where you want to live will probably cost about 8-10000/month.
I would advise you to seriously think through why you want to move to Sweden and find out more facts, rather than relying on images you have built up of some distant Utopia. Moving away from something you dislike always makes the alternative look greener, but as they say in the song: it ain't necessarily so. There are plenty of stories on the discussion board of people who have moved here and hate it. (Both of) you need to have a realistic understanding of what it will mean to move to Sweden - it's tough in all sorts of ways - and, to be brutal, if one of you isn't 100% committed there is a real chance it will turn into a nightmare.

There are discussions to change the law in Sweden so that only qualified teachers will be allowed to be employed. You should make sure your qualifications can be transferred or see how much extra work you need to do to get a Swedish qualification. (You don't want to be stuck in the same job forever and you definitely don't want your employer to know that you are).

On the plus side getting a job first is definitely the way to do it!

See if the school can help with finding an apartment for you, if you move.
Removal costs are something else you should try and get assistance with.
Also get your older kids name down for a place at "dagis" so he/she can begin to make friends (this is limited to I think 2 half days per week if one of the parents isn't working).
Long term your wife will probably have to work if you want to have a decent standard of living with 2 kids. You need to think about that now, and find realistic options for her career as well.

(BTW I don't think Sweden is anything like Scotland, the only similarity is the midges)

[ScoTboY]

Dear CTIDinArsta and Puffin,

Thank you for the very detailed and informative feedback... it's the MIDGES that have put me off... NO-OOOOOOOO!!! Just joking! Happy New Year to you all!

[Sunshine73]

Hi! I live in the south of sweden in Skåne! In the winter months the sun goes down between 3-4pm and comes up between 7:30-8:30am..

Im from the states so it took me a few years to abjust to the dark afternoons! but he summer makes up for it!

[Lilje]

It really depends on where you will be teaching in Sweden. I am a new teacher in Sweden with English as my mother tongue (just recieved my degree from Stockholm University) and I reccomend one of the first things you do is to join a union/look at unions (mine is Lärarförbundet). When you log into their website with, you can find out the typical wages for a teacher depending where you will be living (and what to ask for...for example in the Stockholm Area there can be a large difference between a teacher who teaches in the city and one who teacher on the outskirts).

I also reccomed learning Swedish and not just the basics. There are schools that have gotten into trouble for having too many teachers who can only speak English and next to no Swedish...many of the bilingual schools are now looking more for those who can speak both languages and are accredited in Sweden and can adapt their teaching to the teachers curriculum in Sweden (It is in English if you have not read it yet Lpo 94 in English...essentially working in English but the Swedish way, if that makes sense. If you want to get accredited though in Sweden at a later date, you can take supplementary programs through the University of Stockholm. Right now there is a bit of a rush on elementary school jobs with preschool jobs being quite easy to get. Just focus on your qualifications though and you probably will do fine . I know at alot of the English schools there are large amounts of applicants but how many are honestly qualified, I don't know. All I know is that when I went to SU I did not meet one candidate who had English as their mother language and was going to school for the whole program (3 1/2 year program). I don't know if that is bad or good...good for me I guess because it was not hard to find a job really.

Maybe your wife would feel better when she gets more facts on the type of wages they are offering you/benefits and such. Yes you can live off of one teacher's salary but it depends on your living standards and what you like to do. As another posted, most likely your wife might have to work in the future considering you have 2 kids but she can take classes with you in Swedish. Great activity to do together and it is free

[ScoTboY]

My 'battle-axe' of a wife is an English as Foreign Language (EFL) teacher and I'm quietly confident she'll end up getting a few hours here and there in some of the EFL schools as freelance teacher. She's got one of those posh RP/Queen's English accents...unlike my dodgy Scottish accent so I'm sure that'll help! Anyway, I've got fourteen days to convince her. Readers, if you've got any mega-POSITIVE comments about living in Sweden, please do not hesitate to post them. *fingers crossed*

[dsclimb]

i may have missed it, but you have not said even roughly where the job is. This is the biggest factor.

For your wife you need to consider the change of lifestyle. ie. If you currently live in a large town and she has lots of local friends & activities, then you move to somewhere remote but cheaper to live, can she occupy herself, is she content with quality of life and not the quantity?
If you live rurally, you may need 2 cars for her to have her freedom.
If you can afford it, do a quick trip over in advance? or is she too far gone to fly now?
The extra tax you pay compared to the UK is more than saved in childcare subsidisation if you are both working.
You will also get quizzed on your paternity leave intentions, if they little one is due after you have started the job there, that may put them off employing you.

[ScoTboY]

Dear DSclimb,

You must know my wife! I mean, she has a mother-baby circle of friends and they do loads of activities together, e.g. baby ballet club, swimming, wildlife walks etc. My wife doesn't know whether mothers in Sweden do similar activities with their children and if it'd be easy to make 'mother' friends and continue all these baby activities. Do you have any information on that? Is it common for mums to get together and go to baby/toddler clubs like it is in England? I can't imagine there being any language barriers anyway.

Our baby's due in March and the job, if I'm successful, starts in September. The school already knows about the baby situation and are happy to interview me. As for maternity pay, my wife will be getting that from the UK.

The school is in a place called Enskede which is either in or very near Stockholm. I'll need to get public transport to work as I'm one of those 'non-driving environmentally friendly' types, i.e. I don't have a driving licence! We plan to take our car (her car!) with us so she'll definitely be able to get to places.

[dsclimb]

like the UK there are baby clubs for just about everything, seen baby cinema, baby salsa so I'm sure you can get baby-anything around Stockholm.

You will hit the slightly bigger issue of property prices, which will eat into your pocket money.

Other issues.. is she happy driving on the left in a RH drive car. Easy to dismiss now, but once there is snow on the road will she feel as confident (i know you're in Scotland and it snows there too!!).

On the plus side, you're probably moving the best area in terms of your wife settling down, there are masses of other oversea people living and working around Stockholm and it will be very differnt to going rural. Ask the school where the other teachers are from and live, there might be local network / clique of mums she can just fall into.

You might need to consider how you do the residency thing, as if you are both living and registered as Swedish tax payers, does the UK still payout standard maternity pay to non-residents?

[ScoTboY]

Thanks DSclimb, I'll need to look into that UK maternity pay point that you mentioned because I have no idea how that works once we leave the UK. As for the driving on the left, my wife and I used to live in Italy and she's driven there for a number of years... if she can handle the crazy Italian drivers, I'm sure she can manage the mild-mannered Swedes...not too sure about the snow though!

I think my wife would be silly to give up on this fantastic opportunity to live in one of the best countries in Europe. I'm dying the get out of the UK and teach abroad again, however, the only places I'd seriously consider are the Nordic or Benelux countries... maybe Switzerland, Austria and Germany too: my wife isn't too keen on the Germans (I wonder why?!?! Must be some kind of English 'thing!') The problem is my wife doesn't know anything about Sweden and thinks it's like one of those not-to-serious countries ... best not to mention country names in case I offend anyone! When I was at uni in Scotland, I met loads of Swedes and they created a good impression: polite, well-mannered and educated. It's not every day you get a job interview for a teaching post in Sweden (VERY rare indeed!).

[stephanie921]

If you can get your wife online mumsinsweden.com is a wonderful site. They have all sorts of play groups especially in the stockholm area... Those forums within themselves is a great outlet for moms they seem to form great bonds. I was recommended the site for more info and they really helped!