(edit title) Moving to Sweden in 2022 Trying to get a toe in with forestry/haulage Options

[JonathanR]

[Gamla Hälsingebock]

It's Norrland for trees...Pulp/lumber and machinery...

[JonathanR]

Thanks for the reply!

We certainly like the look of the area around G?vle, but the further north we go, the further it is for us to drive back to the UK when we need to. That's the main constraint.

[Gamla Hälsingebock]

"drive back to the UK"...No planes???

[JonathanR]

They are an option, but with family in Germany, a drive back from Sweden isn't that daunting.

[Mrs Robinsson]

Obviously you need to network like crazy, meet and have long discussions with people who have tried or are already doing what you plan. If you haven't already you need to understand the bureaucratic and regulatory environment.

Many people on this forum would strongly advise you to get to know other non-Swedes who have lived in Sweden for a few years. Learn about their experience. How did their spouses and kids handle it?There are dozens, maybe hundreds of entries on this forum about the Swedish mentality. And how insane it makes many (most?) non-Swedes to live with this tribe.

Most people I have spoken with liked many things about Sweden, but had major difficulties with the soul-killing behaviour of the locals. Any way you can go there for a few months, preferably in the winter to give it a test drive?


Don't ask any Swedes because they will always tell you things are perfect there.

[JonathanR]

[skogsbo]

A brief reply now as I've not much time.

I live in kronoberg and work in forestry and agriculture.

There is limited forest south of kronoberg and it gets flatter too, areas around Lund will seem more like lincs or Norfolk to you. It's prime agri land, not forest.

Northern sweden, yields are lower due to climate and altitude, forest is cheaper, but margins are tighter etc... southern to central sweden is your optimum forest.

Covid might change things a little but you've two years yet. Timber is stacked up at the ports as no one is building in Europe. Plus many in sweden who own forest but have a normal job are cutting whilst their day job is closed down.

Much of the work is done by smaller owner operator companies do contract big and small. The boss plus 3 or 4 employees who might run shifts through a harvester and forwarder etc... it will be tough to break into cold.

Many diversify with clearing, thinning, planting etc..

Must dash I'll answer any queries you have another time.

[JonathanR]

A brief reply now as I've not much time. I live in kronoberg and work in forestry and agriculture. There is limited forest south of kronoberg and it gets flatter too, area ... (show full quote)

A brief reply now as I've not much time.

I live in kronoberg and work in forestry and agriculture.

There is limited forest south of kronoberg and it gets flatter too, areas around Lund will seem more like lincs or Norfolk to you. It's prime agri land, not forest.

Northern sweden, yields are lower due to climate and altitude, forest is cheaper, but margins are tighter etc... southern to central sweden is your optimum forest.

Covid might change things a little but you've two years yet. Timber is stacked up at the ports as no one is building in Europe. Plus many in sweden who own forest but have a normal job are cutting whilst their day job is closed down.

Much of the work is done by smaller owner operator companies do contract big and small. The boss plus 3 or 4 employees who might run shifts through a harvester and forwarder etc... it will be tough to break into cold.

Many diversify with clearing, thinning, planting etc..

Must dash I'll answer any queries you have another time. ... (hide full quote)

Incredibly helpful answer, thank you!

My passion is low impact forestry, so the plan is to move to Sweden with something like a Malwa 560c kombi machine. With the very mild winter last year, I am hoping to capitalise on the poor winter ground conditions which preclude the use of full-sized machines. I just want to do first thinnings in conifers.

Sk?ne does indeed look very flat and boring. Not my cup of tea really. Central to Southern Sweden is where we have been looking up to now. We don't want to be too far from my brother in law in Lidk?ping either.

[TheExpatEagle]

I've lived in Sweden for almost 20 years and have family all along the south of England so I am curious to know what you mean by chaos in southern England? I ask because some areas of Sweden are just as chaotic depending what you mean.

That aside, I have no experience in the forestry industry but if I were you I would get used to not receiving replies from employers and so on be it in Swedish or English. It is pretty standard. Sweden will have high unemployment and it will be interesting how things will go after Covid-19 here.

I would try to learn as much Swedish as you can now because if you can't speak any Swedish it will be really difficult for you to get work. I know people who have moved here with a profession such as chefs, HGV drivers and the like and they get knocked back because they can't understand Swedish.

Sweden is all about contacts and networking. Employers do practise discrimination (not racism) as they think it is important that people fit in. They don't like people who work too much, can't blend in (language) and people do complain if they feel left out. They favour Swedish workers so you need to be ahead of them and stand out.

Some jobs get hundreds of applications and most are just discarded, which is why you won't get a reply. If they think employing you will cause the workplace to become more English (which is very easy to happen) it will go against you. Even schools here have employed rules to stop foreign kids speaking English in class to other kids.

Despite the image not everyone can speak and understand English and employment law is strong here. At least this is my experience and that of people who have moved here over the past 2 or 3 years.

Also in 2022 you might need to take a new driving test to get a Swedish driving licence because as things stand we don't know what the regulation will be for Brits and Brexit. You definitely won't be able to work in the transport industry without a Swedish licence.

Good luck... You'll need it.

[JonathanR]

I've lived in Sweden for almost 20 years and have family all along the south of England so I am curious to know what you mean by chaos in southern England? I ask because s ... (show full quote)

I've lived in Sweden for almost 20 years and have family all along the south of England so I am curious to know what you mean by chaos in southern England? I ask because some areas of Sweden are just as chaotic depending what you mean.

That aside, I have no experience in the forestry industry but if I were you I would get used to not receiving replies from employers and so on be it in Swedish or English. It is pretty standard. Sweden will have high unemployment and it will be interesting how things will go after Covid-19 here.

I would try to learn as much Swedish as you can now because if you can't speak any Swedish it will be really difficult for you to get work. I know people who have moved here with a profession such as chefs, HGV drivers and the like and they get knocked back because they can't understand Swedish.

Sweden is all about contacts and networking. Employers do practise discrimination (not racism) as they think it is important that people fit in. They don't like people who work too much, can't blend in (language) and people do complain if they feel left out. They favour Swedish workers so you need to be ahead of them and stand out.

Some jobs get hundreds of applications and most are just discarded, which is why you won't get a reply. If they think employing you will cause the workplace to become more English (which is very easy to happen) it will go against you. Even schools here have employed rules to stop foreign kids speaking English in class to other kids.

Despite the image not everyone can speak and understand English and employment law is strong here. At least this is my experience and that of people who have moved here over the past 2 or 3 years.

Also in 2022 you might need to take a new driving test to get a Swedish driving licence because as things stand we don't know what the regulation will be for Brits and Brexit. You definitely won't be able to work in the transport industry without a Swedish licence.

Good luck... You'll need it. ... (hide full quote)

Thank you for your insight - really helpful info.

We're in Devon, just north of Exeter and it's essentially a constant traffic jam on roads that were outdated and unfit for purpose 100 years ago. Running a forestry business (moving machines and timber) is extremely difficult and the profusion of tourists and retirees resistant to any kind of rural work makes life generally unpleasant. The lack of the right to roam (which we were used to in Scotland) adds to that feeling of England being rather unfriendly.

Learning Swedish is top of my priority list once lockdown is finished. Having to entertain a 2 and 5 year old 24 hours a day leaves little energy for anything else at the moment. I have German citizenship, so hoping that I won't have all the driving licence issues.

My hope is that, whatever we end up doing for work, that we can carve out a niche for ourselves doing something that no one else is really doing. I thus far have three separate ideas, all of which could be done simultaneously, or to a greater extend individually. And also HGV driving on top of that.

[Grommet]

It sounds like you have a nice plan to move to Sweden. And the type of work you do definitely fits.

You might want to keep an eye on a few things though. Swedens' GDP is set to contract and unemployment is rising. Same as anywhere, but Sweden will neither be spared.

Last time I checked, unemployment for foreigners was more than 4-5 times that of locals. And that was before corona.

I think in two years time, it can possibly be even worse. Have a back-up plan. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Taxes are also set to increase big time in Sweden, so favourable economics might not be there.

Whatever you do, make sure you have loads of cash in your pocket, you will need it one way or another in Sweden.

[skogsbo]

Taxes are also set to increase big time in Sweden,

Extremely unlikely. Where have you read that?

[yonisan]

I have lived in Sweden for 9 years and do not find the locals terrible - as others in these forums state. I do not speak Swedish fluently but I try my best and this is appreciated by my colleagues and people that I see in our apartment building on a daily basis. My issue is that they tend to drop in to English rather than speak Swedish.

I live in Stockholm and most of the people I interact with are very kind and helpful including the older generation in the apartment building. I have found if you challenge the cultural stereotypes then eventually the people you see every day will say hello in the stairwell or share the lift and have a conversation about life and currently corona.

Life is hardest for me here in the winter even though I lived on the Isle of Man for a few years where it could get very dark - I start to feel it from end of September onwards.

Other than that compared with life in the UK I find that living in Sweden has increased my quality of life more than I have time to type

[Gimp]

Op,

If traffic jams are what you call chaos, and resistance towards personal freedoms, via consensus culture, Jante, lagom, set you off... then be wary of Sweden and navigating the never ending traffic jam of bureaucracy and stifling social codes.

Do you visit Sweden for long periods of time rather than shorter vacations. Vacationing tends to romanticize the idea of living there disregarding the realities.

What will your wife do?

Good luck. You have plenty of time to plan.