(edit title) Renting in Malmo? Housing in Sweden for dummies! Options

[inmortus]

Hello,

I will be moving to Malmo for a job in June. I have never been to Sweden, and was a bit surprised to read posts about how difficult it is to find apartments to rent. I read something about queue lists, how getting an apartment for rent might take years, and I am not sure I fully understand how all of this works.

I'm sorry to ask what may be a silly question, but can someone give me a "renting apartments in Sweden" for dummies?

What exactly are the difficulties and why?

What is the best way to find an apartment for rent as a foreigner that does not speak Swedish?

Also, Malmo specific, how difficult is it to find an apartment in Malmo, where should I look for an apartment (my salary will be around 30,000 SEK) and how much should I expect to pay?

I read about renting "second hand" but (not even being a native English speaker) I am not sure I understand what that means or entails...

Thanks in advance!

[Opalnera]

Renting second hand means that someone else has a contract/lease on an apartment and you rent from that person. Renting is a serious headache. If you have 30 000 SEK a month salary and are going to be in Sweden for more than a year I'd buy an apartment. Looks like Malm

[inmortus]

Thanks. Buying may be an option but... would a bank in Sweden give a loan to a foreigner who just moved in to Sweden for a new job?... How much of a headache would it be to buy a place in these conditions?

What do you mean when you say that renting is a headache? I mean, how long can it take to actually find a place second hand?

Thanks.

[inmortus]

Thanks. Back to the idea of renting then. Once again, as a foreigner with no experience in Sweden, what exactly is the headache of finding an apartment for rent in a city like Malmo?

[LLHope]

Thanks. Back to the idea of renting then. Once again, as a foreigner with no experience in Sweden, what exactly is the headache of finding an apartment for rent in a city like Malmo?

Let's see if I understand correctly. You accepted a job and even negotiated a salary for that job in a country that you have no experience of, a language you do not speak, have no idea about how to find accommodation or the expected cost, nor probably know the level of the general cost of living... Don't you just for a moment think that you have done this the wrong way round. In fact, the only thing you are certain of is that you are a foreigner ...whatever happened to common sense?

[inmortus]

Thanks for that great answer that helps a lot and gives so much value to this discussion!

Really!

Yes, I am a foreigner, yes I have accepted a position in a different country of which I have very limited knowledge. I did of course check that the salary was appropriate (I never said I didn't), and I have several months to figure out the housing aspect of it... In my line of work it is quite common to move internationally every couple of years to a different new country; I don't really see anything bad about it, as I get to experience new cultures first hand and keeps my life from getting boring...

And regarding the language... well... if I were only to go to countries that speak my language then I'd never try new things, nor would anyone with any sense of adventure willing to experience cultural shock... I do speak English, so moving to Sweden does not seem as scary as say moving to mainland China...

[passport-stamps]

Let's see if I understand correctly. You accepted a job and even negotiated a salary for that job in a country that you have no experience of, a language you do not speak, ... (show full quote)

Let's see if I understand correctly. You accepted a job and even negotiated a salary for that job in a country that you have no experience of, a language you do not speak, have no idea about how to find accommodation or the expected cost, nor probably know the level of the general cost of living... Don't you just for a moment think that you have done this the wrong way round. In fact, the only thing you are certain of is that you are a foreigner ...whatever happened to common sense? ... (hide full quote)

Why do you people have to be so snarky and mean on these forums? You guys paint a very negative and nasty impression of Sweden. UGH!

[cherrybubble]

I don't really see anything bad about it, as I get to experience new cultures first hand and keeps my life from getting boring...And regarding the language... well... if I ... (show full quote)

I don't really see anything bad about it, as I get to experience new cultures first hand and keeps my life from getting boring...
And regarding the language... well... if I were only to go to countries that speak my language then I'd never try new things, nor would anyone with any sense of adventure willing to experience cultural shock... I do speak English, so moving to Sweden does not seem as scary as say moving to mainland China... ... (hide full quote)

Fantastic answer and fantastic attitude! Yup, this (all of it) is an adventure!

With that attitude, you will be just fine here in Sweden (and honestly, anywhere else you travel)
=)
Welcome fellow traveller and adventurer!

[inmortus]

Thanks for the great info!!!

[passport-stamps]

Hi, The housing situation is bad in Sweden. Other systems are bad as well, but his one is bad in a different way, so it is hard for foreigner to understand.There are about ... (show full quote)

Hi,
The housing situation is bad in Sweden. Other systems are bad as well, but his one is bad in a different way, so it is hard for foreigner to understand.

There are about 4 types of housing in Sweden:
1. First hand rental contract: those are direct contract between the renter and the owner. They are regulated and regulations are mostly enforced. Those are the best things. They are cheap, well maintained. The downside is that you need to be on waiting list for years (20 years is not uncommon for Stockholm). So unless you were put on those list at birth, forget it. You can also buy your place in on the black market, usually involving the current tenant and more money that you want to (http://www.thelocal.se/20090203/17324).

2. Second hand rental contract. You rent from the person who has a direct contract with the owner. Since first hand contract take years/decade to obtain, people are not willing to let them go if they go abroad for a finite amount of time. In that case they sublet it. Those are the same apartment, but the regulation are not enforced as they should, especially regarding the price (the first hand cannot make money out of the sublet, he can only charge 10% more it the apartment is furnished). Don't expect to find that, the demand is so high compared to the offer that everyone is afraid of loosing their chance of getting an apartment if they declare the fraud. Those sub contract are short term, expect to move every 3 months if you take that route. You find those legitimate, along scam, on blocket.se (google translate is your friend there).

3. Right to live somewhere (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bostadsr%C3%A4tt google translate is your friend): This is like condo, but you don't buy a property, you buy the right to live somewhere. Thus, when you buy you don't make a real estate transaction (reduce transaction cost). Thus this is a speculative market based on the condition of the building, the maintenance fees and the trendy area. If you put down 25% of the price and have a work contract in hand the bank does not ask too much question. When you look at those on hemnet.se, look at the fees "avgift". Some have low maintenance fees (higher selling price), others have high maintenance fees (lower price), some others are just really expensive from both end. Use the calculator on hemnet.se ,also don't forget that most people don't buy their right to live they just take interest only loan (i.e. they don't pay the principal on their loan, the average full refund time is on the order of 100 years), so don't forget to change the tool to finite refund time.

4. Buying a house. This is the usual real estate transaction. You own your property. They are found on hemnet.se. Those are real estate transaction with transaction fees, etc.

When you "buy" something, the move in date is usually 3 months later. There is bidding if there is interest in the property, thus the asking price will change, usually upward.

When you buy something, the government will pay 30% of the interest (skatterredution), but won't help you for the principal.

All that being said, ask your employer, or colleague to help you find an apartment, otherwise you are lost. I know people with well paid job who just immigrated elsewhere because of lack of proper and accessible housing in Sweden. ... (hide full quote)

Wow! you guys quite a bleak and absolutely horrid picture of life in Sweden. If all of this is true then yikes!!

[xtenzion2]

The easiest way to get housing in Malmo would be to rent a room. Most Swedes have big fears of sharing an apartment or house with other people. So there is a lot of less people to compete with. Most Swedes want to live lonely lifes in their own apartments.

I personally would rent a room in a house, it's so much nicer to live in a house, you will also have access to laundry anytime, have a big kitchen, have a lawn etc. You will also save money by renting a room, it's also make it a lot easier to get friends when you living with other people, they can probably help you out with questions etc.

Here you have few ads for room for rent. The averige price seems to be 3500 sek / 550 dollars a month. There might be a bit of wiggle room for negotiations. It's actually quite expensive, me and my wife rent out rooms here on the east coast of Australia for 135 dollars a week, with electricity, internet and everything else included.

http://www.blocket.se/bostad/uthyres?q=rum...m=282&m=285

[inmortus]

Thanks xtenzion2, however, I am well over 30 and at this point in my life I really can't picture myself living with roommates...

I guess I'll just have to wait once I am there to see what happens!

I do find the idea of troubleshooting housing in Sweden quite amusing, as I've never heard of anything quite like that before!

[LLHope]

I do find the idea of troubleshooting housing in Sweden quite amusing, as I've never heard of anything quite like that before!

Just look at the countries that suffered house price bubbles that collapsed in recent years, one of the main causes was surge in demand that couldn't be met by immediate supply, relaxed rules for building and generous offers from banks (e.g. special mortgages for buy-to-rent), leading to a surplus of accommodation, downturn in the economy and the bubble burst. Nothing unique there, been all over the news.

The difference between Sweden and most of those other countries is that since 2000 immigration has granted more than 1.2 Million residency permits. For a country that already had one of the highest accommodation per capita to then over a reasonably short period have mass immigration resulting in a population growth of more than 10% What the heck did they expect to happen? Not even the infrastructure can handle a population growth as rapid as can be seen in the larger cities. Where do they think everyone is going to live?

The last time Swedish property market bubble burst was because it provided tax incentives to building companies and specials for local authorities to build. When it was announced that there was a cut-off date for the subsidy there was a sudden large boom in building to take advantage of the scheme before it ended. They even found after-the-event that local kommuns had been building in areas where they were already seeing negative population growth!

There is no simple answer, the risk with any measure is that they could collapse the property market for home owners, couple with that the law on rents has changed to allow new builds to be charged at (higher) market rates (i.e. controls have basically been removed) and now the expected enforcement of the recalculation of depreciation (can not defer) for new created BRFs will result in increased monthly charges for those also. Anything new will push up rents and/or monthly charges, which then increase the pressure even more to remove rent controls even from older properties as there will be a huge (unfair) gap otherwise, which removes the incentive to build.

And let's not forget that the main reason for the cry for more accommodation has nothing to do with providing accommodation for immigrants, it is mainly driven by residents who are now finding it difficult to find places for their kids once they reach 18yr and want them to move out, yet do not want their own property values deflated.

[xtenzion2]

And let's not forget that the main reason for the cry for more accommodation has nothing to do with providing accommodation for immigrants, it is mainly driven by resident ... (show full quote)

And let's not forget that the main reason for the cry for more accommodation has nothing to do with providing accommodation for immigrants, it is mainly driven by residents who are now finding it difficult to find places for their kids once they reach 18yr and want them to move out, yet do not want their own property values deflated. ... (hide full quote)

It's a combination of immigration and market failure, mostly a market failure because the renting market still using the old Soviet style planned system with rent control.

The problem is that asylum seekers get treated like bloody royalties, when the rest of us can't find housing, the asylum seekers can choose where to live and then the state will guarantee them housing. We take really good care of them and we allow them to build their mosks, we give them food for free etc. I wouldn't mind this if they would be grateful, but they backstabing us after giving them so much. At the same time they are backstabing us the whole mass media and politicians is backstabing us Swedes by calling us Rascists for every single little thing they can find.

But anyway, the housing market needs to be fixed. But a lot of people I talk with still wants the old soviet housing system to go on and not change it.

If we would kick out immigrants that do crime, it would make it easier for all swedes and immigrants that do the right thing plus there would be housing available for us.

[LLHope]

We take really good care of them and we allow them to build their mosks

Why would Christians be building such things?

If we would kick out immigrants that do crime, it would make it easier for all swedes and immigrants that do the right thing plus there would be housing available for us.

I will guess that you are trying to imply they are not deported? Actually you will find a very different picture, again it is something that the media choose not to report to the public as it implies there are a lot of criminal immigrants!, in fact you will find that when serious or serial criminals are convicted that are immigrants the court in sentencing will give a custodial sentence (and/or) with expulsion. The convicted criminal will then have to serve any custodial sentence and once that is completed they are deported. What is even more surprising is that one country in the world that normally refuses it's deportee citizens returning is Iran, yet for some reason they will always accept back their citizens that have been deported for criminal offenses in other countries!